memes

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pomodoro_longbreak, in Space Billionaires
@pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

The needs of the many call for it

Urist, in It's a simple world view
@Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

Wherever there is a need there is potential for exploitation by greed. Of course capitalists without a leash are going to wreak havoc on everything.

dangblingus,

Capitalism by definition is about exploiting labor and extracting wealth. Commerce is the ethical application of purchasing goods and services.

Tak,
@Tak@lemmy.ml avatar

Why do you say commerce is specifically ethical? I’ve always considered it more neutral and up to implementation.

dangblingus,

Ethical as in it’s goods and services for currency. Ethical in that no one is being exploited actively. Commerce requires legislation.

Tak,
@Tak@lemmy.ml avatar

So the act of commerce is ethical but the source of the commerce might not be? I feel like I’m being really obtuse here and I apologize but goods and services could be stolen or forced and rarely is legislation enough. But I can totally see two unknowing people engaging in trade at their free will for items they don’t know are stolen.

I feel so pessimistic about the world at times that I find materialism and ethics just don’t mix.

maynarkh,

Commerce deals with the distribution of value, production with the creation of it. So let’s say there is a widget factory. If one person “owns” it and thousands work to make widgets, their production is stolen through ownership, which causes deeper issues beyond the obvious as well.

Commerce doesn’t cause problems as it’s just resolving a situation of swapping the widgets you made for carrots. Barring some market-twisting forces like the stock market for example, a simple free market where you’re happy with the amount of carrots you get for the amount of widgets you get is fine.

The evil of capitalism is not that you can trade. The evil of capitalism is that you go to work, and receive a fraction of the product of your work while someone else who does not work at all receives a lot of it.

Technically the current capitalist western system would be socialist, if employment without ownership would be outlawed, and coops were the enforced norm.

orl0pl,

♪ We live, We work, We buy/die ♪

TheSanSabaSongbird,

This is how the tankies roll; they want to define the terms of the argument however they want and then expect the rest of us to go along with it.

Tak,
@Tak@lemmy.ml avatar

I think you’re making a discussion into a spit fight for the sake of feeling better about yourself. I ask because I want to understand and for no other reason.

Urist,
@Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

I think the ethical part may have to do with the following from Wikipedia on commerce:

The diversity in the distribution of natural resources, differences of human needs and wants, and division of labour along with comparative advantage are the principal factors that give rise to commercial exchanges.

I do not see how the commercial part is necessary for the distribution of goods though and recognize it as the main culprit in making such a system unethical. I.e., supplying needs is good and necessary, however a commercial platform is not.

maynarkh,

Not all socialists are tankies.

Hazmatastic, in *Door slams. Tires squeal in distance*

Men-leaning folk, please try this line on your partners and let me know how it goes

Gabu, in It's a simple world view

And most of the time you’d be right.

yogthos, in It's a simple world view
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

And it’s the root cause vast majority of the time.

freeindv,

Not really

yogthos,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

yes really

freeindv,

Really not really

yogthos,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose

rwhitisissle, in All lives rule

This is an ancient opinion. People have been complaining about America’s two party system for literal centuries.

DragonTypeWyvern, (edited )

I thought this was about Israel doing a genocide because people (especially Israeli people) can’t separate Hamas from Palestine.

But everyone seems to be taking it as a commentary on the two party system despite only one of these things being new to this year?

rwhitisissle,

The ideological signifying here, though, is squarely situated within the language of American politics. All Lives Matter was a reactionary counter to Black Lives Matter, a distinctly American political movement. Similarly, “both sides suck” is something which has been repeated ad nauseam about American politics. As such, the meme suggests itself that it’s about American politics. At least that’s how I’m reading it. If the OP meant it to be about Israel and Palestine, I think they could have framed it better.

Cinner,

Also, the guy in the meme is a… checks notes… Canadian that goes around debating freshmen at American college campuses.

rwhitisissle,

I prefer to refer to him as “failed comedian Stephen Crowder.”

Resol,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

Palestine itself is a two party system. Hamas vs Fatah, the former controls the Gaza Strip, the latter controls the West Bank (specifically the areas not occupied by Israel)

pikasaurX4, in The future is now, old man

Hey, kid!

outer_spec, in The future is now, old man
@outer_spec@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Don’t worry, ChatGPT is just a Radiohead fan ok computer album cover

Lucidlethargy, (edited )

It said “conputer”, though…

loaExMachina,

To avoid copyright issues, perhaps?

octesian, (edited ) in 6÷2(1+2)

I don’t remember everything, but I remember the first two operations are exponents then parentheses. Edit: wait is it the other way around?

wischi,

Yes it’s the other way round. Parentheses are top priority.

wischi,

The full story is actually more nuanced than most people think, but the post is actually very long (about 30min) so thank you in advance if you really find the time to read it.

usernamesaredifficul,

bidmas

brackets, index (powers), division, multiplication, addition, subtraction.

brackets are always first that’s the whole point of brackets

Samsy, (edited ) in 6÷2(1+2)

I really hate the social media discussion about this. And the comments in the past teached me, there are two different ways of learning math in the world.

wischi, (edited )

True, and it’s not only about learning math but that there is actually no consensus even amongst experts, about the priority of implicit multiplications (without explicit multiplication sign). In the blog post there are a lot of things that try to show why and how that’s the case.

Prunebutt, in 6÷2(1+2)

If you are so sure that you are right and already “know it all”, why bother and even read this? There is no comment section to argue.

I beg to differ. You utter fool! You created a comment section yourself on lemmy and you are clearly wrong about everything!

You take the mean of 1 and 9 which is 4.5!

/j

SpaceNoodle,

Right, because 5 rounds down to 4.5

Lionel,

…Because 4 rounds up to 4.5

wischi,

@Prunebutt meant 4.5! and not 4.5. Because it’s not an integer we have to use the gamma function, the extension of the factorial function to get the actual mean between 1 and 9 => 4.5! = 52.3428 which looks about right 🤣

Prunebutt,

Not sure if sarcastic and woosh, or adding to the joke ಠ_ಠ

Redjard,
@Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The mean of 1 and 9 is 5

Prunebutt,

woosh

Sidhean,

Stop it Patrick, you’re scaring them!

stu,

I think you got hit hard by Poe’s Law here. Except it’s more like people couldn’t tell if you were jokingly or genuinely getting your math wrong… Even after you explained you were joking lol

Prunebutt,

I thought the “/j” tone-tag was enough ;_;

Redjard,
@Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

If one doesn’t realize you’re op, the entire thing can be interpreted very differently.
Then “Not sure if sarcastic and woosh, or adding to the joke ಠ_ಠ” could be interpreted as something like “I’m not sure if you are adding to the joke and I’m not understanding it”.

SpaceNoodle,

jarcasm?

Prunebutt, (edited )
wischi,

🤣 I wasn’t even sure if I should post it on lemmy. I mainly wrote it so I can post it under other peoples posts that actually are intended to artificially create drama to hopefully show enough people what the actual problems are with those puzzles.

But I probably am a fool and this is not going anywhere because most people won’t read a 30min article about those math problems :-)

Prunebutt,

I did (skimmed it, at least) and I liked it. 🙃

relevants, (edited )

Actually the correct answer is clearly 0.2609 if you follow the order of operations correctly:

6/2(1+2)
= 6/23
= 0.26

wischi,

🤣 I’m not sure if you read the post but I also wrote about that (the paragraph right before “What about the real world?”)

relevants, (edited )

I did read the post (well done btw), but I guess I must have missed that. And here I thought I was a comedic genius

MrVilliam, (edited )

Nah man, distribute the 2.
6/2(1+2)
= 6/2+4
= 3+4
= 7

This is like 4st grayed maff.

Th4tGuyII,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

@relevants you truly are the smartest of all men

Titan, in Remember, if Fascism wins it is YOUR FAULT.

Neo-liberal fascism or conservative fascism? 🤔

TrismegistusMx,

They’re two faces of the same demon.

TokyoMonsterTrucker, in 6÷2(1+2)

The order of operations is not part of a holy text that must be blindly followed. If these numbers had units and we knew what quantity we were trying to solve for, there would be no argument whatsoever about what to do. This is a question that never comes up in physics because you can use dimensional analysis to check to see if you did the algebra correctly. Context matters.

kogasa, (edited ) in 6÷2(1+2)
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

It’s not ambiguous, it’s just that correctly parsing the expression requires more precise application of the order of operations than is typical. It’s unclear, sure. Implicit multiplication having higher precedence is intuitive, sure, but not part of the standard as-written order of operations.

wischi,

I’d really like to know if and how your view on that matter would change once you read the full post. I know it’s very long and a lot of people won’t read it because they “already know” the answer but I’m pretty sure it would shift your perception at least a bit if you find the time to read it.

kogasa,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

My opinion hasn’t changed. The standard order of operations is as well defined as a notational convention can be. It’s not necessarily followed strictly in practice, but it’s easier to view such examples as normal deviation from the rules instead of an implicit disagreement about the rules themselves. For example, I know how to “properly” capitalize my sentences too, and I intentionally do it “wrong” all the time. To an outsider claiming my capitalization is incorrect, I don’t say “I am using a different standard,” I just say “Yes, I know, I don’t care.” This is simpler because it accepts the common knowledge of the “normal” rules and communicates a specific intent to deviate. The alternative is to try to invent a new set of ad hoc rules that justify my side, and explain why these rules are equally valid to the ones we both know and understand.

wischi,

What is the correct answer according to the convention you follow?

kogasa,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

I have a masters in math, please do not condescend. I’m fully aware of both interpretations and your overall point and I’ve explained my response.

wischi,

I still don’t see a number ;-) but you can take a look at the meme to see other people with math degrees shouting at each other.

kogasa,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

Sorry your article wasn’t as interesting as you hoped.

onion,

The difference is that there are two sets of rules already in use by large groups of people, so which do you consider correct?

kogasa,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

There aren’t.

Th4tGuyII,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

They weren't asking you if there are two sets of rules, we're in a thread that's basically all qbout the Weak vs. Strong juxtaposition debate, they asked you which you consider correct.

Giving the answer to a question they didn't ask to avoid the one they did is immature.

kogasa, (edited )
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

Ah yes, simply “answer the question with an incorrect premise instead of refuting the premise.” When did you stop beating your wife?

That’s not what they asked me. I have no problem answering questions that are asked in good faith.

Th4tGuyII, (edited )
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

I can't have stopped because I never started, because I'm not even married... See, even I can answer your bad faith question better than you answered the one @onion asked you.

But I will give it to you that my comment should've stipulated avoiding reasonable questions.

The difference is that there are two sets of rules already in use by large groups of people, so which do you consider correct?

However I still think you need your eyes checked, as the end of this comment by @onion is very clearly a question asking you WHICH ruleset you consider correct.

Unless you're refusing the notion of multiplication by juxtaposition entirely, then you must be on one side of this or the other.

kogasa,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

“Which ruleset do you consider correct” presupposes, as the comment said, that there are 2 rulesets. There aren’t. There’s the standard, well known, and simplified model which is taught to kids, and there’s the real world, where adults communicate by using context and shared understanding. Picking a side here makes no sense.

Th4tGuyII,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

When the @onion said there were two different sets of rules, you know as well as I do that they meant strong vs. weak juxtaposition.

You're right that in reality nobody would write an equation like this, and if they did they would usually provide context to help resolve it without resorting to having to guess...

But the point of this post is exactly to point out this hole that exists in the standard order of operations, the drama that has resulted from it, and to shine some light on it.

Picking a side makes no sense only if you have the context to otherwise resolve it... If you were told to solve this equation, and given no other context to do so, you would either have to pick a side or resolve it both ways and give both answers. In that scenario, crossing your arms and refusing to because "it doesn't make sense" would get you nowhere.

In all honesty, I think you're acting like the people who say things like "I've never used algebra, so it was worthless teaching me it as a kid" as though there aren't people who would learn something out of this.

kogasa,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

You are literally so far removed from this conversation I don’t know what to do with you. Good luck.

Th4tGuyII,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

That's rich considering what sparked this conversation was you refusing to answer a simple question.

Good luck to you too - with reading comprehension like your's, you might just need it.

kogasa,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

with reading comprehension like your’s

Man.

Th4tGuyII,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

I'll just say it again, you're the one saying this problem is completely unambiguous, with your only explanation as to why being that real people communicate as though that solves every edge case imaginable.

I'm just saying, if you really believe that to be the case, Good luck.

Aussiemandeus, (edited ) in 6÷2(1+2)
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

I guess if you wrote it out with a different annotation it would be

‎ ‎ 6

-‐--------‐--------------

2(1+2)

=

6

-‐--------‐--------------

2×3

=

6

–‐--------‐--------------

6

=1

I hate the stupid things though

velox_vulnus,

Markdown fucked your comment. Use escape symbols.

Aussiemandeus,
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

Escape symbols?

onion, (edited )

Lemmy interprets some symbols as formatting commands, for example putting a # at the start of a line turns it into a header:

header

You can tell it to not do that by putting a backslash before the symbol:

# not a header

The backslash is called the escape symbol.

Aussiemandeus,
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

Cheers mate

velox_vulnus, (edited )

Never mind, here’s another better way to do this:

^6^⁄2(1+2) ⇒ ^6^⁄2*3 ⇒ ^6^⁄6 ⇒ 1

Works on the web page, but looks weird on some mobile app. Markdown is a fucking mess. Some implementation has MathJax support, some have special syntaxes.

Rustmilian, (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Lemmy* markdown is a fuckin mess. It’s way better elsewhere. & <>

Aussiemandeus,
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

Yeah connect for lemmy didn’t sort the out very well.

Brak,
@Brak@hexbear.net avatar

oooh this looks very pretty on hexbear, thanks friend!

Aussiemandeus,
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

I guess if you wrote it out with a different annotation it would be

‎ 6

–‐--------‐-------------- 2(1+2)

= 6 –‐--------‐-------------- 2×3

= 6 –‐--------‐-------------- 6

=1

I hate the stupid things though

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