hey sometimes your chest just feels like there’s a great weight crushing you crushing you from above and the walls are closing in and you’re scared and you just sit there stupidly not wanting to make a fuss but knowing absolutely knowing that this is it this is how it all ends–oh and then it kind of passes and you get back on shift and get in trouble for being slow, but it’s alright at least you’re alive
You might misremembering it, as it’s more akin to Kurt Vonegut. This phrase is frequently used in his Slaughterhouse-Five, one of my favorite pieces of fiction.
No problem, really. Even better, reading it now can bring you even better experience and understanding of these themes. I didn’t have it in my school’s curriculum and I read it in my 20s, and I don’t believe I’ve exhausted it at that time in my life. There’s something magic sense in his prose I do feel I won’t find until I have me hairs completely gray. So I find it perfectly okay to reread it and maybe find new thoughts you haven’t got before to enrich thyself. See if you can give it a chance. In some contexts it just huts different.
Therapist: you need to focus less on the things that are outside of your control, and come to accept the fact that there are some things you just can’t change.
Me: crying you mean some things just be what they be?
I have seen several therapists both individually and in a group setting, and the therapist's approach can range from "why don't you try to cater to everyone else's insecurities all of the time instead of standing up for yourself in a constructive way" to actual support that can lead to change. It isn't a perfect solution and can require trying more than one therapist to find one that actually listens and helps if you want to actually fix something instead of just someone to listen to you complain.
They were all ridiculously expensive and only one was actually helpful. Heck, the successful one ended with less frequent sessions and then ending with a plan to schedule if needed. I can see why someone who only had experience with the other approaches wouldn't want to waste money on not resolving anything.
In my limited experience the therapists who were men actually acknowledged issues and tried to resolve them, which makes a bit of sense as therapists come from the same society where women frequently want to just be heard and men want to do things because that is how they are raised.
Completely correct, and it seems that mentality is alive and well.
Bluntly, society seems to put the burden of being independent and successful squarely on the shoulders of men with little regard to their well-being. For most men, everything has a solution where you “just need to do x” and you’ll “fix” the issue. This works for stuff like a job, where something that’s a problem requires an active task to find and execute the solution. Soft skills not required.
Meanwhile, a lot of traditionally female held roles in society, usually in the form of care (mother/parent, nurse, customer service) are very soft-skill heavy. There may be no solution, and their job is to make everyone okay with the situation… More mitigation, than fix. Just make the problem less bad.
Meanwhile, nobody bats an eye when a woman mentions that they see a therapist, but when a guy mentions it, he’s seen as weak, that he doesn’t have the solutions to the issues he faces, yet the men have never been given the tools to deal with situations that they cannot control. Either you fall in line with a “yes, sir!” Or you find a new solution to fix the problem. Just accept it and move on with life, or find a better way. There’s no grey area, so many just go with “it is what it is” rather than actually trying.
With society getting to the point where many traditionally gendered roles are being assigned to anyone (which, don’t get me wrong, this is progress), the thinking needs to change.
I'll bet more than one of them had serious mental health issues that were exacerbated by being told to just 'toughen up a little bit' when they reached out for support. Calling people cowards for acknowledging issues promotes a toxic view of men being able to open up about issues.
Lol, my father constantly telling me to toughen up is what led to me going to therapy.
Toughening doesn't permanently do the trick, it leads to repression of emotion and is a very isolating thing. It's better instead to be vulnerable and expand your support network. One strong tree isn't as strong as the interlocked roots of a forest.
Like most things, toughening up can be helpful in some situations but when used for everything it becomes counterproductive. Like letting petty insults slide when they don't matter is a pretty handy skill, but there is a need to also know when not to and when to reach out so that there is support for when it is needed.
Therapy doesn’t fix any of the most pressing issues I have. I’d wager about 85% or more of my stress is economic or environmental in nature. My big three worries are how am I gonna afford a house by myself, how am i going to be able to retire on little money and without kids, and is the envrioment going to lose the ability to sustain human life while I’m still alive and on nothing more than a fixed income.
I don’t need to journal my thoughts and pretend the outside world doesn’t exist, I need some damn material security in my life.
The thing therapy has helped me with in regards to that is feeling okay despite it all. Being content despite not having all of our wants and needs fulfilled is a valuable skill.
I understand your point, and I also think a bit in this direction. But i think there may be two counterpoints.
First you beeing depressed over the status and worrying at home and online about it, is not really helping your or doing anything against your boss.
Second, as i understand it, the goal is not to get really content, but to get more control over your feelings. It is perfectly fine if zou feel sad or angry over the situation. It shows you what you want or do not want. But this doesn’t need to control your life. If you have the possibility you should definitely use your anger to give you energy for the fight for better working conditions. But if you can not, you should your feelings taking complete control over you
There’s only so much that can be done to meet one’s needs. There will always be wants and needs that go unfulfilled, it’s just the nature of being human. Being able to exist with that, without it causing you extreme distress, is a very valuable coping skill that’s lost in a lot of people.
This doesn’t mean eschew meeting your needs completely, but simply acknowledging that some may be actually impossible to fulfill right now, at least safely, and working on an actual viable plan, instead of panicking and doing whatever short-term fix seems handy.
Im glad working on a viable plan and panicking are mutally exclusive for you, but they’re not for me. This is why my therapist started suggesting I simply stop paying attention to everything outside of my immediate daily view. My brain also failed to make itself happy through that kind of ignorance. Not to mention I couldn’t simply make that information unexists from my day to day social interactions. I was encountering at work what my therapist told me to avoid and since it was word of mouth it was less reliable than if I had just read it myself.
Actual doctors have tried, years have been spent and by the time I stopepd going id been going on about a year of weekly visits where I was no longer being taught anything new, simply checking in and making sure I was doing all the things I already learned. Copays were eating away at my actionable steps to fix the other problems in my life and I was no longer learning anything new or noticing positive behavioral change.
Sounds like a therapist that just didn’t mesh with you. If they’re just doing routine maintenance and not suggesting ways to improve either they’re not suited to your situation, or there’s something else confounding the situation.
You don’t have to completely put on blinders to be content despite being without. You can see all of the things you’re missing, or actively working towards but not at yet, and not be thrust into the middle of an emotional response. This is simply the point of my statement.
I want to commend you for what you’re doing. It doesn’t feel good, but you must remain effective. You can’t re-align schemas through Internet comments however, don’t burn yourself out.
Hey, man, thanks for the kind words! I enjoy these kinds of conversations, I like to think I’m working towards making the world a better place, no matter how small. If one person resonates with what I’ve said, I feel accomplished.
I want to thank you for your messages here. I agree with promethil that you need to consoder yourself, i think texts like yours can do quite something good. Sure you won’t heal someone with a few messages. However, I was brought to a mindfulness training* mostly by a reddit chain of comments and this helped me, along other things, a lot, getting out of difficult times.
*An app called “Mindfulness Coach” by the US Department of Veterans Affairs
Thanks for your message! I’ll take a look at that app, for sure. I’m leaps further than I was, but not where I’d like to be. Hope you have an excellent day, friend!
Ive been to multiple therapists, usually I switch when I get to the maintainace phase, except the last time when I just decided to save the money all together. This isn’t something that happend in isolation, and like I said last comment literal doctors have also intervened in some of these areangements. Please stop acting like you posses some truth I have yet to find. ‘Emotional response’ or not, having needs going unmet causes mental and physical duress and side effects, necessarily. No matter how happy you pretend to be about it.
I never said they didn’t. And I never said you have to be happy in the face of it. There’s a distinct difference between “content”, the word i used, and “happy”, the word you seem to hear.
Society fuckin sucks for the majority of people, I think we can all agree on that bit. And yet, a lot of people manage contentedness despite these absolute facts.
There exist things outside of our ability to control, directly or otherwise. Often, these things get in the way of our needs. You have 3 options in this case. Give up, ram into it with everything you have and fuckin hope it works, or accept it and find a way to be content despite the roadblocks.
Yes and I’m telling you I’ve spent years going to professionals trying to feel ‘content’ and it doesn’t really change shit. Either you can swallow it and smile or you’re gonna gag. Therapy didn’t move the needle nearly as much as investing in the knowledge and infrastructure to remove myself from the problem, which is property and small scale farming. Notice how the only thing standing in my way is means, means I was slowly giving an insurance company who took more than their fair share from my doctor or therapist to tell me to try and smile about it instead. Therein lies my point, therapy solves my bosses problems not mine, it’s a distraction from mine. You’re mileage may vary, but like I said way up top, therapy can’t solve every problem. Hell therapy can’t solve the same problem for every person either with how wildly different peoples brains are even on a chemical level. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn’t. Like every other medical treatment.
I’m sorry that therapy hasn’t worked out for you. I do acknowledge that not every kind of therapy works for every person, or for every problem. I only truly made progress when I found a very specific type of therapy that resonated for me, doing a lot of that journey on my own, and finally bringing it into a therapist office when I reached the end of what I could do alone.
I hope your life path has you moving towards something you consider better, however that looks for you.
We shouldn’t be striving to be “content” we should be livid, pissed, terrified, motivated.
Being content while the world is falling apart is madness and the more people that are “content” means more people unwilling to actually make the changes necessary to fix the problems we have.
“Content” simply means you feel as if you could live life with what you have. It doesn’t mean you can’t WANT more. It doesn’t mean you can’t hate how badly the system is bending you and others over. It’s simply a state of being that is, “at the end of the day, none of this is unbearable. I will continue living, and as such, there’s no need for an extreme emotional response.”
Drive, desire, fight… all of it can exist, and you can still maintain contentedness.
there’s no need for an extreme emotional response.
That’s the part I’m having issues with. There’s very much a need for extreme emotional response.
Idk clearly I’m not picking up what you’re putting down and I apologize for seeming so hostile. I’m just at the point of wanting to commit acts of terror because the people in charge are making protest illegal.
I just don’t see how that’s any different from “it is what it is” in the first place.
Man, I get it. I’m at that point, too. In a lot of ways society has failed all of us.
Society is also a large vessel that takes lifetimes to change. Essentially, the kind of thing one man can do barely anything about. Not that we shouldn’t try, but… Well, to quote Stephen King, “pray for water, but dig a well while you wait.”
I think the best way to describe it is, if I feel content, it’s a sense of stability within myself - a sense that I’m grounded, and going to get through. Some of my needs right now are going under-fulfilled, but that won’t be eternal. I’m uncomfortable now, but discomfort doesn’t mean I’m in a situation where I should panic and start grasping at the first possible way to fulfill my needs. Instead, I can be comfortable in my discomfort, think about what my needs actually are, and create a plan to fulfill those needs in a more healthy and sustainable manner.
UK? Yeah that shit is scary. I am gobsmacked they’re pulling that authoritarian crap.
I’m probably full of shit but here is what I’m thinking. Some things like employers not paying enough and treating employees like shit in various ways-- that is depressing if we are totally helpless. If we can form unions and protest in effective ways, that actually get some reforms going, then it feels like maybe there is some hope.
Content isn’t the right response. Neither is giving up in despair. Being able to channel anger and frustration productively seems lots better.
If you’re lonely for a bit, or some things aren’t going great you can learn to live with that, for now while also working on fixing what you can. Spinning your wheels fretting and self-pitying doesn’t help but taking action does.
Some things will always be outside of my control.
It is probably best to find a way to accept those things. Rather than stewing about them. Because all that does is make me feel worse.
I think you pretty well nailed my view of contentedness with your paragraph starting “if you’re lonely…”. That’s pretty much how I see it. It’s a state of being okay, despite some needs not being met in the moment. Tend to urgent needs, be ok with some less urgent ones sitting for a bit, accept things you have no control over, and work towards bettering your position overall, instead of sitting and wallowing in the self-pity mire.
I think I understand you. I also think there are needs for extreme emotional response. However, I would be interested how often they helped you in, and how often the only effect of these was making you feeling worse?
I did some therapy in this direction. And I am generally more content. I can enjoy way more time of my life than a year ago, even in similar situations.
But if we talk about the status of the world, I am at least as angry and sad as before. And I also do at least as much to change it as before. Which, to be honest, is not as much as I would like.
Edit: I think I can actually experience emotions more intense now, while not being overwhelmed by them.
Feelings of extreme loneliness. Accepting that, despite having a very real need (community, belonging, connection) not being met at the moment doesn’t mean that it ever will be, and I can actually be okay being uncomfortable, but still content.
I think it is worth pointing out that while therapy can certainly help you manage stress better and be more content maybe, if you are truly struggling and falling further behind here in the US, no amount of therapy (which you can’t afford anyway) is going to make you stop being hungry, sleep deprived, heal severe injury or illness, or give your home back. And going without food, sleep, or housing can lead to death.
Those items are a bit trickier for sure. There’s a biological need for them and so they can be pressing. There’s a certain bare minimum that yeah, you can’t just not have. Anything past that, though, past the absolute critical for life level, is something you can learn to be content with, learn to not desire more than, and instead just be thankful for the excess above starvation that you enjoy in this moment.
You have needs that go unfulfilled all the time. You’ve never been hungry without any immediate food? Part of being content is being able to go without needs for a certain period of time, being safe in knowing that it ISN’T going to be forever.
This, of course, doesn’t mean you can forego every need forever. Yeah, being without food or water too long can and will kill you, but that doesn’t mean you have to have that need 100% met 100% of the time.
Of note, I’m not saying that people just shouldn’t eat. That’s the kind of need that we as a society should have figured out by now, truly. But going without SOMETIMES okay, and learning that is huge.
I’d say more than half the crappy situations I end up in are both outside of and beyond my control. Sometimes, you just have to ride the suck train until things improve. Therapy is a powerful tool, but it has its limits, and it’s important to know when and how it can be helpful.
I’ve about had it with all these people complaining about COVID. Listen, you’ll be fine. You cough a bit, you sometimes develop symptoms that stay with you for the rest of your life, and if you’re over 60 you die. You would be dying soon anyway, what’s the use of complaining? This is just how things are.
Covid-19 vaccine researchers, if your opinion had any merit.
And you know what? I really need to hear less about all this climate change shit. It’s done. We fucked the world to get ours. I got my yacht and my mansion. Oh, you didn’t get yours? Well yeah, your kids will die. My kids might die too, but if they sell my yacht they’ll probably live more than yours anyway lmao. It’s over, you lost, gg, stop complaining. Bitching isn’t going to do any good.
I know a female supervisor that uses it daily to demean her employee’s valid concerns and needs. She was nicknamed The Witch and she has witch paraphernalia and decorations all over her office. She knows how far she can push and abuse people without raising any alarms to the executive staff.
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