What's the point of buying new phones every years?

Other than your carrier give it for free or cheap, I don’t really see the reason why should you buy new phone. I’ve been using Redmi Note 9 for past 3 years and recently got my had on Poco F5. I don’t see the point of my ‘upgrade’. I sold it and come back to my Note 9. Gaming? Most of them are p2w or microtransaction garbage or just gimped version of its PC/Console counterpart. I mean, $400 still get you PS4, TV and Switch if you don’t mind buying used. At least here where I live. Storage? Dude, newer phone wont even let you have SD Card. Features? Well, all I see is newer phones take more features than it adds. Headphone jack, more ads, and repairability are to name a few. Battery? Just replace them. However, my Note 9 still get through day with one 80% charge in the dawn. Which takes 1 hour.

I am genuinely curious why newer phone always selling like hot cakes. Since there’s virtually no difference between 4gb of RAM and 12gb of RAM, or 12mp camera and 100mp camera on phone.

dystop,
@dystop@lemmy.world avatar

I mean, most of the population isn’t buying a new phone every year, it’s just that there are enough people using phones in general that at any given time there are people buying new models. It’s the same reason why there are people buying cars every year.

I personally use my phones for about 3 years. Sometimes up to 4, but usually year 3-4 is when the battery degradation gets so horribly bad and performance stutters so much that I figure if I’m going to do a full reset and buy a new battery and all that, I might as well get a new phone.

godofpainTR,

Not charging my old phone to 100%, rather to 85% or 90% has helped with battery longevity immensely. After almost 5 years in use, accubattery still shows 80% battery health, and even if that’s not accurate, it still lasts quite a while. The SD625 that phone had was very sluggish though, so in the end I still replaced it

dystop,
@dystop@lemmy.world avatar

I used to do that, but it was a chore to keep monitoring my battery life. I wish there were a “charge phone to 80% and stop” option.

B16_BR0TH3R,

Samsung phones let you restrict the battery percentage to 85 percent. I think Apple does the same now.

normalmighty,

There are apps you can install to manage it for you on android, automatically cutting off charging when a given percentage is reached.

dystop,
@dystop@lemmy.world avatar

…huh, i wish i knew that earlier. I’m gonna search for it now.

Metallibus,

Pretty sure this is root only. Normal apps don’t have access to the charge controller and I’ve never seen an app that claims to do this without root.

godofpainTR,

My samsung has the feature built in, but on that old phone I rooted and installed Advanced Charge Controller. (Not feasible for most people i know)

Metallibus,

I don’t know why Google hasn’t put this feature directly into Android. It’s honestly one of the biggest pushes away from Pixel devices for me and it’s absolutely silly.

shapesandstuff,

See thats where im with OP.

Lots of people do switch every 1-2 years.

And swapping a battery costs idk 40€ and an afternoon, full reset costs nothing and takes 20 minutes. Why would i generate that much trash and spend a thousand bucks on the latest shit thats 99% the same instead?

Guildo,

Capitalism and Marketing, bro.

shapesandstuff,

I know, thats why it’s so annoying.
Just two more reasons not to do it.
I had a oneplus 2 since 2015 or so until upgrading to a 9 Pro in 2021.
Several important apps had locked me out and battery life slowly became a noticable problem. I would’ve been fine for another 3-5 years if the lineage image had still supplied android security updates.

xavier666,

The only reason I had to replace my OP3 was because the buttons and screen broke down after 6 years. Battery was max 1 day but it worked for me.

shapesandstuff,

Yeah everyone I know charges their phone over night every day anyway.

Comptero,

I had a 4 year old phone that I had to charge twice a day. I figuered I switch the battery with an official branded replacement which had costed around 100€. The difference between the old and new battery were unnoticable and I still had to charge the phone twice a day.

normalmighty,

IPhone maybe? I know they restrict your battery capacity with software as your phone ages, so the short lifespan has nothing to do with the actual condition of the battery. Iirc some other brands do it to, but I don’t know which ones.

luki,

It‘s the other way around. Capacity decreases on its own just through usage. What Apple (and other manufacturers, as you said) does is decrease clock speeds of the CPU and RAM to make degraded batteries last longer. Basically trading performance for battery life. And that feature should deactivate automatically if the device senses a new battery being put in. At least it did with my old iPhone 6S.

shapesandstuff,

tough luck. Sounds like it was straining to keep up with background apps / OS updates rather than a broken battery.
Guess trouble shooting is half the battle in these cases.

henfredemars,

Perhaps the replacement battery was manufactured a while ago?

M_Reimer,

The only real issue are updates. After just 3 years my previous phone didn’t get any security updates and I had to get new hardware. I actually liked my previous phone more than my current one. But it is how it is.

Nezuh,

I hope I dont jinx myself with this but I dont think security updates at the OS level are that important nowadays.

joelthelion,
@joelthelion@lemmy.world avatar

This is why we need law to mandate security updates for 5+ years.

hunt4peas,

That’s why I installed custom ROM on my Redmi Note 3 and used it for 4.5y until the battery swole.

Jackolantern,

Switch to iPhone. Or pixel. Longer security updates. Guaranteed

XpeeN,

This.

If you have a phone with snapdragon CPU you probably can extend it’s lifespan with custom ROMs that offers security updates. Mine released in 2019, support dropped at android 11, but unofficial LOS with android 13 works great and still updates regularly. No complains here, even the OTA works. Although I do need to flash manually because of root. I don’t see myself upgrade anytime soon.

ulu_mulu,
@ulu_mulu@lemmy.world avatar

That’s the reason why I switched to iPhone after many years of Android, security updates are vital nowadays with all the sensitive data and apps we use on our phones, Apple is the only one that guarantees al least 5 years, iPhones are not too expensive if you don’t buy the latest models and I’d rather avoid supporting companies that don’t understand the importance of security.

TheAnonymouseJoker,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

You are wrong. Android decouples its updation from “system update” and does not do updaes the way Apple does. Play Store, system apps and third party apps can continue to be updated years after official OEM EOL has been reached. You cannot use App Store or install or update any apps after 5 years of iPhone, but you can install and upgrade apps in an Android 5.0 device (8 years) or Android 7.0 device (6 years) long after EOL has been reached.

Moreover…

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/10d4f55a-2586-4a29-b8a1-abc9686df859.png

  • Asus has now increased security updates to 4 years for its Zenfone 10.
Pechente,

Yeah exactly. It’s surprising how many people don’t check or care how long their device is being updated. Apple does a great job of supplying their devices with updates long-term.

ulu_mulu,
@ulu_mulu@lemmy.world avatar

True, I bought an ipad more than 7 years ago to read because e-readers are too small for my liking.

I don’t use it much anymore since I have an e-writer now, but it still receives updates regularly, whatever comes to my phone comes to it as well, it’s impressive.

amir_s89,
@amir_s89@lemmy.ml avatar

If you stand there at the store with this year’s iPhone; take the full price divided by how many years you plan to own/ use it. Then you realize it’s actually relatively cheap.

luke,

iPhones have decent residual value as well. You should be able to recoup at least a third of the price after three years, if you look after it.

Ranessin,
@Ranessin@feddit.de avatar

Both Samsung and Google give you 5 years of updates (at least 3 major Android releases + 2 years of Security updates) for a few years now.

ConditionOverload,
@ConditionOverload@lemmy.world avatar

Pixel and Samsung also have 5 years of updates promised. And more phones are giving at least 3 years. I don’t think most people nowadays are hanging onto their 5 year old phones. Most everyone switches phones every 2 or 3 years.

ulu_mulu,
@ulu_mulu@lemmy.world avatar

I’m a fringe case then lol, I keep them until they actually break, they do last 4-5 years for me, sometimes more, I don’t make intense use of my phone, I much prefer using my PC for basically everything.

001100010010, (edited )
@001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Apple isn’t the only one that guarantees many years of updates. The fairphone (although currently only sold in the EU, they’re coming soon to the USA) has 5 years of promised support, Google Pixel 6 and later also have 5 years of promised updates, Samsung Galaxy, has 4 years, while one year less than its competitors, still much better than the 1-2 years most phones used to have. Android phones these days aren’t like the wild west back then, Android phones are on par with iPhones, the choice is merely personal preference.

ulu_mulu,
@ulu_mulu@lemmy.world avatar

Happy to hear companies are finally getting it.

pineapplelover,

Pixel actually guarantees 5 years now and if you put GrapheneOS on it, then you’ll have one of the most private and secure operating systems available

zkfcfbzr,

You can do even better than five years with Fairphone (…Speaking as a Pixel user)

cyberic,
@cyberic@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

But will Fairphone be around in 5 years?

Ranessin,
@Ranessin@feddit.de avatar

It has been around for 10 years and 4 phones by now, and only gaining in popularity and market share. No reason to predict an early demise yet. The Fairphone 1 controversially only received 3 years of updates, but since then it’s 5 years.

pineapplelover,

Fairphone is also guaranteed only 5 years. If not, then they are probably using a custom ROM that is not directly supported by Google. I’ll keep my eye out for this company though, the repairability is great and I love the repairability of the phone.

zkfcfbzr,

The article I just linked says they’re extending support to 7 years: Out to 2026 for their 2019 model, the Fairphone 3. The article also links to an older article talking about how the Fairphone 2 ended up with 7 years.

I’m in the US so the Fairphone was never really a consideration for me, but if it’s available whenever I need my next phone I’ll definitely look into it. It’s pretty annoying to be using Google’s own phone, and still only have access to 3 years of OS updates.

pineapplelover, (edited )

Interesting. So 7 years for the Fairphone 3 but it seems on their website, for the Fairphone 4, it is only 5 years, they might extend it to 7 years like their previous phones though.

Edit: Apparently Fairphone 4 is coming to the U.S, but with /e/os instead of the fairphone os.

shop.fairphone.com/?ref=header

www.fairphone.com/en/open-source/

arstechnica.com/…/fairphone-is-coming-to-america/

dzervas,

just a side note for graphene: i have the feeling that it’s not for everyone. “too much” security tends to get in the UX way

pineapplelover,

Chances are if you know how to use an Android, using Graphene isn’t too much harder. You can still download from the play store and run apps like normal. If you’re reading this post then you probably have the technical knowhow to plug your phone into the computer and press the start button.

Fair point with not being for everybody though, I wouldn’t be comfortable giving it to my non-techy family and friends. You do have a fair point.

borth,

Out of curiosity, which Pixel phone is a good one to have GrapheneOS installed on to last a long time?

pineapplelover,

The latest Pixel would get the longest update. They follow Google’s support updates which is 5 years from the time it is available for purchase.

grapheneos.org/faq#device-lifetime

TheAnonymouseJoker,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Just a reminder that GrapheneOS dev harassed Louis Rossmann of being complicit in his hoax attempted murder, something he has not provided evidence for in over 2 months. He has harassed me, Techlore, FlorisBoard, Bromite, Calyx devs and many countless entities, including subreddits of sheltering, according to him, alleged swatters.

pineapplelover,

I followed this controversy as well. On the GrapheneOS forum, strcat announced he has stepped down to work on himself. The project is running like normal and development is still the same as always.

…grapheneos.org/…/5235-stepping-down-as-project-l…

TheAnonymouseJoker,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

His announcement is a big hoax for attention seeking purposes. Upon repeated attempts by his non-critic fans, he refused to provide any evidence of swatting. His habit is to maintain silence whenever he is caught lying, and will use as much dead cat strategies as needed to accomplish that.

rtevans,

I’ve been running GrapheneOS on my Pixel 3 for three years and I have few complaints. I still cant figure out how to get automatic updates to work in Android 13 with the Neo or Droidify stores but atleast the stock GOS apps auto update. BTW, to clarify what you said, we have to use the Aurora app to download from Google Play Store.

You’re right it’s not for most people. Not having Google services installed might be a major blow for people who have become accustomed to the conveniences they provide. I just use a separate vanilla Pixel for Google services if I need them, but the phone with my SIM card is the one with GrapheneOS.

pineapplelover,

You can turn Google Services on if you would like. I personally do have it turned on as some of my apps wouldn’t get notifications without it. You could use it as a normal android downloading through the play store and nobody would notice that it’s degoogled. All the apps are sandbox and you can change what permissions that have, I previously used CalyxOS and this is much more private and secure.

rtevans,

Does it send telemetry? Why is CalyxOS more secure?

pineapplelover,

Oh I meant GrapheneOS is more private and secure. Don’t get me wrong, CalyxOS is still much better than stock android

ulu_mulu,
@ulu_mulu@lemmy.world avatar

Well, Google isn’t famous for being reliable in the long run with their services, Apple is proven at this point, tho who knows, I’ll wait a few years and see if Google is still at it with their Pixels.

Metallibus,

Googles already been doing this for years.

Hector_McG, (edited )

I have just done the same.

Although Google are now promising 5 years of support for Pixel phones, Pixel phones are not a core business for Google, and as they have shown many times, Google will end projects at the drop of a hat with no regard for their customers.

There are secondary Android companies like Samsung that promise long term security updates, but are always behind the publishing curve compared to Google. This means that malicious actors have the opportunity to study Google’s published updates to reverse engineer cracks that they then exploit.

The current Android security update model is inherently insecure due to this issue. Until manufacturers are forced to update in a timely manner ( by which I mean simultaneously with Google) I won’t buy another Android phone.

programmer_belch,
@programmer_belch@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

If you are using an android phone, you can change the ROM to one that still gets updates, it’s like changing the os in a computer. The process will delete all of the user data inside the phone but you’ve got nothing to lose if it doesn’t get any security updates.

I recommend lineageOS to anyone wanting to go down this route because of its compatibility with every phone, old or new.

dzervas,

that “security update” quickly gets irrelevant as the exploits for lineage (or any non-standard rom) sells for pennies compared to a stock exploit. also no one’s paying security researchers to assess lineage - also it would be completely impossible with the amount of updates and devices they release

remember that (unfortunately) security is all about money

001100010010,
@001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

But more people using stock roms could potentially mean any exploit is more easily found compared to custom roms. Not saying that’s the case, but it’s a factor to consider.

dzervas,

as more people use a software it’s not easier to find exploits but much more profitable - and you see that propagate, as in:

  • More people start to use a software
  • Inevitably it gets hacked - by a kid most probably
  • The company starts panicking due to bad press
  • They start fixing the security bugs
  • (some years pass)
  • Now its quite difficult to find exploit as many security bugs have been fixed
  • Exploit prices skyrocket since it would affect many users and it’s difficult to develop
  • Bug bounty skyrockets since the exploits are so pricey

Now the last 2 steps tend to cycle since the security of the product fluctuates

Now the above have nothing to do with “residual” products - such as custom roms. And actually, you have so many deeply specialized people around the main product that finding a bug and developing an exploit on the residual is just a matter of “who the fuck cares”.

So you’re basing your security of your phone on “care”, also known as security through obscurity (some times at least).

Another example of “who cares” security is libreoffice. When I started as a security engineer the veteran (and boss) referred to it as training material to find security bugs. I found some, but who cares? Ain’t nobody gonna pay for them as “nobody” uses the software (keep in mind that we’re referring to millions of daily users rather than thousands per month)

Sorry for sheet! ❤️ Be safe and use a password manager

ILikeMultis,
@ILikeMultis@lemmy.ml avatar

How difficult is it to change ROM?

001100010010,
@001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

It depends. For Graphene OS, there is a web installer that the people who have used it said it was the easiest custom rom they’ve installed. Unfortunately, it only supports for Google Pixels.

For other custom roms… maybe not as easy…

Graphene OS Web Install: grapheneos.org/install/web

TheAnonymouseJoker,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Just a reminder that GrapheneOS dev harassed Louis Rossmann of being complicit in his hoax attempted murder, something he has not provided evidence for in over 2 months. He has harassed me, Techlore, FlorisBoard, Bromite, Calyx devs and many countless entities, including subreddits of sheltering, according to him, alleged swatters.

001100010010,
@001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Yes that’s true, but I’ve heard from others that the person involved has since stepped down from Graphene OS development, so it should be safe from now on.

TheAnonymouseJoker,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

There is no clue about him, because he hid behind the veil of his Discourse forum, where any question related to him started being censored shortly after Rossmann exposed him. He could very well be the guy under a new pseudonym alias, considering he has lied every single time about anything, and considering every mod and himself ran multiple sockpuppets to self promote GrapheneOS and witch hunt downvote brigade any critics. He used to have multiple aliases as well, thestinger, strcat, GrapheneOS’ project itself besides his own name, and has a whole witch hunting troll army.

dzervas,

hmmm depends on the phone and what you mean difficult. If you’ve managed to format a computer you’ll be fine. If you’re having trouble downloading chrome or office, maybe think about it again - I’m not saying you shouldn’t try or learn (everybody can learn), Im just saying that it will require an amount of time that I imagine would be uncomfortable to a user that don’t wanna bother downloading a program.

Not all people enjoy computers!

Latecoere,
@Latecoere@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Lineage isn’t compatible with every phone. My shitty realme has no images there. It always depends on if there’s someone willing to actually make images for specific phones.

Lesson here is to never buy a realme.

CAPSLOCKFTW,

Hey there! Have you checked xda for unofficial ports or other ROMs? Might still be better than vanilla

Latecoere,
@Latecoere@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I haven’t checked that place out for a while. Looks like there’s a small handful of other roms people have ported to my model so I’ll give them a look over. Might be able to extend the life of this thing for a bit longer. Cheers!

ablackcatstail,
@ablackcatstail@lemmy.goblackcat.com avatar

The main reason to do it is when the manufacturer no longer releases security updates for the phone. Given the security history and the typical corporate attitude of caring little for the customer, I want to minimize the risk posed by not having a very out of date operating system.

Coreidan,

You don’t need a new phone every year to get this.

AdamEatsAss,

Some manufacturers drop support after a few years. It’s usually less frequent than every year but if you were worried about spyware or someone getting all those weird pictures you have saved to your camera roll it could make sense to upgrade for peace of mind.

Coreidan,

“After a few years”. So if you have a few years why are you buying a new home every year?

Be honest with yourself. You’re addicted.

dragnet,

Wtf? Its a ridiculous BS situation that support is dropped so fast, but if you do anything remotely sensitive on your phone you should absolutely use a device receiving security support.

weew, (edited )

except even “short” support is two years, major companies like Samsung, Apple, and Google give 4+ years. The “gotta upgrade every year for security” is an excuse, not a reason.

Gecko,
@Gecko@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly just switch to a manufacturer that provides security updates for longer periods of time. My iPhone 5S, released nearly 10 years ago and is still getting them. Fairphone is another great example.

Fluid, (edited )
@Fluid@aussie.zone avatar

Because they welded the one consumable that needs replacement to force you to buy new every few years: the battery

jemorgan,

I don’t think a phone where the battery is welded to the body exists.

I know you’re probably being hyperbolic, but sealing a phone’s body construction to make it waterproof is very different from ‘welding’ the battery in.

Fluid,
@Fluid@aussie.zone avatar

The point is that virtually every mobile on the market has a non-replaceable battery, and that’s a huge factor driving over-consumption via planned obsolescence.

Catch42,
@Catch42@kbin.social avatar

They do? That sucks. I've only had iPhones and have gotten the battery replaced in both of them. It's increased the lifespan of my phones by a couple of years, but it doesn't double it. I usually start to sick of my hardware after about 5 years.

CmdrShepard,

Your iPhone is the same and requires you to take it to a service center and pay someone else to do something that we’d been doing ourselves in 5 seconds for the previous 30 years.

jemorgan,

The person you’re replying to is trying to push the narrative that modern smartphones (iPhones in particular) have bodies that are sealed with adhesive in order to force people to upgrade sooner, instead of to provide waterproofing/dustproofing.

That claim makes no sense in light of how Apple meaningfully supports phones for significantly longer than any other major OEM and goes to great lengths to preserve the usability of older devices. That doesn’t deter people from making that claim because they’d much rather believe apple bad, and other phone manufacturers bad because they’re trying to copy apple.

Inb4 but x phone from 2016 had a removable backplate and was “waterproof,” or but y phone with 0.01% market share is serviceable with a spudger and is “waterproof”.

Fluid,
@Fluid@aussie.zone avatar

Apple literally admitted it engages in planned obsolescence practices and has been fined in multiple jurisdictions for doing so.

Not sure why you feel the need to support shady business practices. There are designs that achieve waterproofing/dustproofing while still enabling replaceability. The obvious question then is why would the majority of manufacturers choose a design approach which restricts replaceability?

jemorgan,

Gosh, that narrative is one of the most pea-brained things that I’ve seen circulating on the internet in my lifetime.

As the link you provided clearly states, apple was fined for not disclosing to users that iOS was underclicking the CPUs on phones that had batteries that were too degraded to provide the required power consistently under heavy load.

Anyone who used an Android phone from that era can tell you about how a >12 month old phone would start randomly powering off between 10% and 30% remaining charge. When a lithium ion battery degrades, it’s no longer able to output its original nominal voltage in a sustained way. Instead, I’ll output the requested voltage, then suddenly the voltage will drop. When the CPU in an older phone was under heavy load, it would put heavy load on the battery, and the battery would fail to provide consistent voltage, which would cause the phone to power off.

On the Android side of things, we could try to replace the battery if we knew that was the issue, but most people would just feel pressured to buy a new phone.

The obvious solution to that problem is just to undervolt the phone’s CPU if the battery isn’t capable of providing consistent peak voltage. Doing this is objectively the opposite of planned obsolescence, it lets people use older phones reliably for longer.

Ironically, a small minority of weirdos are so desperate to hate Apple that they spun a feature that’s obviously intended to increase the longevity of an iPhone into an entire narrative about apple slowing your phone down to get you to buy another one. Which doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, because not undervolting the CPU in a phone where the battery can’t provide consistent peak voltage is way more likely to push people to want to replace it.

I hate consumerism and mega corporations way more than most, and I’m definitely not suggesting that Apple is any kind of moral or ethical company. They’re a company that exists to maximize profits at the expense of anything else, on the backs of exploited workers.

But when the most widespread complaints about a company are things that make the complainers look like idiots who are desperately searching for something to complain about regardless of how disconnected from reality it is, it makes it seem like there aren’t any legitimate complaints about the company. If I were wearing my tinfoil hat, I’d be inclined to speculate about whether that’s actually intentional. The ‘Apple is slowing down my phone to make me buy a new battery’ narrative is so ridiculous that I can almost believe that Apple’s behind it to draw attention away from valid criticisms.

CmdrShepard,

Gaskets, o-rings, and screws exist. The waterproof argument is a weak one that doesn’t hold water. There’s no reason why it needs to be glued together and past phones have had waterproofing with a removable back and replaceable battery.

jemorgan,

Yeah I’m sure you’re more informed of the engineering trade-offs with regard to smartphone manufacturing than literally every major smartphone manufacturer.

blackbrook,

Yeah I’m sure phone companies communicate engineering truth to us, and not what their marketing departments find most in their interest.

jemorgan,

Of course they don’t, I’m not saying anything about what phone companies communicate, I’m talking about what they do.

The smartphone market is extremely competitive, they are very highly motivated to find the most efficient way to engineer a device that maximizes consumers’ purchasing preferences.

A world class product team produces a design that matches customers’ preferences according to world class market research. World class engineers figure out how to maximize features that satisfy those preferences. That virtually always involves trade-offs.

When one company does a better job of maximizing features that match consumer demands, their market share goes up.

When a company focuses on maximizing features that a vocal minority of users want, they struggle to move units.

It’s not some conspiracy to provide inferior products, it’s just capitalism being capitalism. Companies make what people will buy.

blackbrook,

Marketers do not just passively give users what they already want. They also manipulate what users want. This isn’t some conspiracy theory, the marketing discipline is quite open about this. When something is in the interest of the company making more profit, they convince users that it is in their own interest. This is just capitalism being capitalism. Not being able to easily replace your battery is as clear an example of such a thing as you could ask for.

jemorgan,

Except it’s not, you just live in an echo chamber where people endlessly repeat the misconception that the average consumer as any interest in replacing their own battery. They don’t. Marketers aren’t manipulating millions of people into thinking they don’t, either.

If companies like Apple wanted to force people to upgrade, all they would have to do is stoop to the level of the competition by not offering 6 years of OS upgrades on new phones. Or they could not offer first-party, warrantied battery replacements for ~90 dollars. Honestly, apple constantly goes out of their way to make their devices last longer than the competition, and still the bigbrains on Internet forums walk around with their heads in the sand.

You go ahead and do you homie, nobody is going to be able to change your mind from something you’re so desperate to believe.

CmdrShepard,

Implying manufacturers want us to be able to repair our devices more easily yet can’t design them that way because of some impossible feat of engineering required to add an o-ring and some screws? Give me a break dude. None of this is groundbreaking territory.

jemorgan,

That’s not what I’m implying at all.

Manufacturers want to give consumers a device that meets consumers’ purchasing requirements better than their competitors’ products do.

They only want us to be able to repair our phones inasmuch as consumers will buy more easily repairable phones instead of more tightly sealed phones, which is absolutely not the case. Sealed phones consistently sell waaay more than non-sealed phones, likely because they can be slightly thinner with marginally larger batteries. Every once in a while an OEM will release a phone that has a hot-swappable battery, but nobody outside of niche online electronics communities cares.

What I’m debating is the idea that there’s some nefarious conspiracy to withhold hot-swappable batteries from consumers to force them to upgrade their phones. That’s ridiculous. OEMs make sealed phones instead of easily disassemblable phones because consumers buy sealed phones instead of disassemblable ones when given the choice.

And it’s not that hard to figure out why, honestly. Personally, I would rather take my phone to an Apple Store and have them swap the battery for what I can be certain is an OEM replacement for $90 than spend $50 on eBay on a probably fake battery, take time out of my day to swap it myself, and assume the liability in the event of an improper seal. And consumer purchasing patterns show that I’m in the company of the majority of phone buyers in the US.

CmdrShepard,

Sealed phones consistently sell waaay more than non-sealed phones

OEMs make sealed phones instead of easily disassemblable phones because consumers buy sealed phones instead of disassemblable ones when given the choice.

Give some examples of the phones you’re referring to here because I’d bet you’re referring to recent phones like the XCover Pro which use ancient hardware that appeals to nobody.

For 30 years, manufacturers sold phones with replaceable batteries and consumers gobbled them all up with nobody demanding that they instead glue phones together.

You claim phones are thinner when glued yet my Note 4 from 2014 is thinner than my current Galaxy S21 Ultra even though the former had a removable back and replacable battery.

The reason why they’ve all gone to sealed phones is because they ran out of innovative ideas years ago with the yearly release cycle and have now resorted to raising revenue by making phones harder to repair yourself, removing accessories, locking down firmware, and building them with more fragile materials. It’s the same enshittification that we’re now seeing in social media and streaming services. Don’t fall for the marketing propaganda that these companies are pushing because it’s all bullshit.

jemorgan,

My guy, you’ve got absolutely no idea what you’re talking about and it’s embarrassing.

Manufacturers used to sell phones that you had to have plugged into the wall at your house, and consumers gobbled them up. The market has innovated, and now consumers expect something different. How is “consumers used to buy x when it was all that was available so obviously they must prefer it over y” anywhere close to a rational argument?

My claim was that phones are thinner with bigger batteries. Your s21 ultra has a 5000 mAh battery, the note 4 had 3200 mAh battery. The s21 ultra has a much bigger battery in a smaller footprint.

The smartphone market is insanely competitive, if any manufacturer were deliberately making their phones worse, other manufacturers would be capitalizing on that and taking their market share. Phones are easier to repair today than they were 3-5 years ago, you can check out the ifixit repairability scores if you want. Phone firmware is no more locked down now than it has been in the past, unless you’re specifically talking about how much worst modern pixels are than they and nexus’s were in the past. I don’t know about Androids since 2020, since that’s when I switched, but the steel bezels and flat glass on iPhones since the 12 pro make them FAR more durable than any phone I’ve used. Haven’t had my phone in a case for 3 years, and there have been a handful of times it’s fallen out of my pocket while getting into my truck. The stainless bezel doesn’t deform like aluminum, so side impacts aren’t transferred to the glass. Countless drop tests corroborate this.

You think phones are getting worse because you want to think that, despite the objective reality. You personally want a feature set that’s not widely popular, and you’re mad about it. Which I actually totally get.

CmdrShepard,

and now consumers expect something different.

So your argument is that consumers expect their batteries to be glued inside the phone because it’s “something different?” That doesn’t make much sense.

How is “consumers used to buy x when it was all that was available so obviously they must prefer it over y” anywhere close to a rational argument?

That’s the argument you made in your previous comment, that people are buying up phones with sealed batteries because that’s what they want even though that’s the only option available. I’m still waiting for your examples of two comparable phones being sold at the same time, one with a sealed battery and one without and the sealed phone selling better. I suppose you skipped over that because it’s never happened.

The s21 ultra has a much bigger battery in a smaller footprint.

You claimed that phones are thinner now because they’re sealed. The S21 Ultra is larger than the Note 4 in every dimension. It has a larger footprint to accommodate the larger battery.

If any manufacturer were deliberately making their phones worse, other manufacturers would be capitalizing on that and taking their market share.

Based on what? There is barely any competition these days. Two companies control a majority of the market.

Phones are easier to repair today than they were 3-5 years ago

So what? Phones were much easier to repair 5+ years ago. Why did you choose 2018 as your cutoff when smartphones existed for an entire decade prior to that?

Phone firmware is no more locked down now than it has been in the past

False. Most phones can’t be rooted these days when it used to be a common thing.

the steel bezels and flat glass on iPhones since the 12 pro make them FAR more durable than any phone I’ve used.

Well based on your prior comments, I’m assuming you’re fairly young and didn’t have a smartphone prior to sometime around 2018. I’ve had smartphones since the original Android on the HTC G1 and it wasn’t until getting my S21 Ultra that I’ve had to buy a case since Samsung and Apple decided to encase their phones in glass. I’d hate to break it to you but glass is not in fact a durable substance. I still have my 9 year old plastic and aluminum Note 4 running with zero damage and it never once lived in a case and has been dropped hard enough to leave gouges in the aluminum. That isn’t possible with glass encased phones regardless of how much you want it to be true. Deformed aluminum was an issue with the iPhone because they cheaped out on the materials and made them so thin that you could fold the phone in half with your fingers.

I think smartphones are getting worse because I’ve been using them for 16 years and can tell the difference. I’m sure if all you use your phone for is checking social media and snapping photos of your lunch for Instagram, you wouldn’t notice the difference, but some of us actually want more out of a $1500 computer.

jemorgan,

Consumers used to expect their phones to be attached to the wall with a wire, the market innovated, now their expectations are different.

… which is exactly what I just said, but you’re apparently dead set on interpreting every bit of information you run into in a way that supports your worldview, which honestly is consistent with your whole argument here.

You presumably have access to the internet, you’re capable of doing 10 minutes of research for yourself to find the numerous phones released in the past 5 years that have easily serviceable batteries. I could not care less if you do so or not. I’ve had this exact conversation half a dozen times, I already know what that list will look like. If you want to know what the list looks like, you can do the work yourself, I don’t care either way.

The s21 ultra has more mAh per cubic mm of phone, which is a more explicit way to say more battery in a smaller size. Regardless of that, the fact that you’re resorting to pedantry shows me that you know that you can’t respond to my point in a meaningful way. I claimed that sealing smartphone internals allows manufacturers to fit larger batteries in smaller form factors, the fact that a phone with a 30% larger battery is 5% bigger than another phone isn’t a refutation if that.

There’s plenty of competition globally, but less so in the US. Regardless, there was a ton of competition when smartphones first started having sealed internals. Interestingly, the two manufacturers that leaned the hardest into sealing the biggest possible battery in the smallest possible footprint are the two manufacturers that currently dominate the market, which is another point against you.

5 years was an arbitrary number highlighting the fact that manufactures are trying to make phones more repairable within the same dimensional constraints, which would not be the case if they had an agenda to force people to upgrade by making phones less repairable. Again, your only response to my argument is pedantry.

And finally, thanks for yet another wildly off-base assumption. I’m a 32 year old SWE who works in mobile app development. I’ve had probably a dozen android phones over the past 15 years. I could enthrall you with anecdotes about how much more durable a modern iPhone is than any flagship android phone that’s been made, but I don’t have to. There are plenty of reasonably high quality drop tests that paint an objective picture.

Smartphones are immeasurably better than they were in the past. They’re faster, have multiple days of battery life, have incredible displays, and vastly better software.

I am certain that you don’t use smartphones in any way that’s more demanding than the way I use smartphones, so you can take that whole condescending monologue and shove it right back where it came from.

Saneless,

I’ve had a waterproof phone with a removable battery. It’s not crazy. Within the last 6 years or so even

narwhal,

Samsung galaxy s5 👍

MystikIncarnate,

They’ve been a “not user serviceable” component since before phones got water proofing.

Additionally plenty of things can be disassembled with screws and such, that are waterproof… Watches come to mind.

The fact that they’re making it impossible for we the people and owners of the products, to change the battery isn’t a technological limitation, nor a practical one. They did it so people will be forced to seek help to get a new battery, at which time, the vendor/carrier/whomever, can simply upsell the end user.

They did it to sell more phones. If you believe anything other than that, I have some land in Alaska to sell you.

jemorgan,

Yeah, of course they did it to sell more phones. Phone OEMs sell more units when the units are as compact and water/dust proof as possible. Sealing phones with adhesive maximizes both of those metrics, with virtually no (non-hypothetical) trade-off to the vast majority of users.

Maximizing profits by maximizing the characteristics of smartphones that customers care about is not only a perfect explanation for sealed internals, but it’s the only explanation that stands up to any amount of critical thinking.

The “they want to force you to upgrade” narrative is popular because people want to believe it. I mean, obviously they want you to upgrade, but they also know that consumers are more likely to buy their products over competitors’ if the product has a reputation for longevity. Which is why OEMs like Apple support their devices for as long as they do, and even tailor software to provide a consistent experience with a degraded battery. If they wanted to plan for there devices to become unusable after a certain time, it would be a lot more straightforward for them to just stop doing the things they’re doing to make sure devices are usable for 5+ years.

burndown,

This is so pedantic and competely misses the point.

jemorgan,

The literal second sentence of my comment clearly demonstrates that I understand the point that the other commenter was making, that I’m aware that they’re being hyperbolic, and gives a direct response to the point being made.

If you can’t manage reading past the first dozen words of a comment, maybe you’d be better served by keeping your reply to yourself.

LimitedBrain,
@LimitedBrain@beehaw.org avatar

Luckily for us Americans, the Europeans have their head on straight and can force companies to fix this by the end of the decade. So that’ll be nice at least

Pap3r,

I feel like when I was younger and phone tech was changing a lot in the early days of the iOS and Android the difference even 1 year made was sometimes huge. Nowadays it’s much more incremental. A slight processor boost here, a couple GB of Ram there. I think a large part as to why that is is two things.

One, the tech has stagnated to some degree. Innovation doesn’t exactly sell a phone to regular non tech folks, a stable “don’t have to think about it” experience is what most people are after.

Two, a lot more issues with the cell phone platform are solved with software rather than throwing around more powerful hardware.

All that being said when I was younger I loved the idea of bleeding edge tech in my pocket, I upgraded all the time. The appeal was more customization at a lesser cost to performance, I wanted all the bells and whistles and less of the jank that came with it. I’m a little older now and lean much more towards the “give me something that works and doesn’t crash for the 10 minutes I have to look at my phone” club.

For those that upgrade to the latest iPhone/Pixel every year no matter what, I chalk that up to lots of expendable funds. It doesn’t appeal to me any more but I can also recognize that there are probably plenty of people out there now, like I was 10 years ago, so it could also be a general interest in the tech and how the bleeding edge keeps pushing for faster, more efficient technology.

axtualdave,

I’ll pile on with a “Yup!”

While I fell into a pattern where I intend to upgrade every 2 years maybe 5 or 6 years ago, I’ve noticed in that same time frame that both the cost of new devices has gone up significantly and the durability of those devices has dropped.

I’m very easy on my phones. They spend a vast majority of their time on my desk, or plugged into my car. I’m old and boring enough that “going out” involves sitting down at a table at a nice dinner with friends and then going home. That said, the battery life on my phones starts to degrade after about a year. Various flaws start to creep up in the device. I’ve already had to replace the screen on my Pixel 7 Pro once – though, to be fair, it took a tumble from the couch onto a hardwood floor, but even that, really, shouldn’t turn the screen non-functional.

It’s disappointing to see that planned obsolescence rearing its head.

galloog1,

See, I am not easy on my phones and I wish they were more durable/glove friendly.

Mostly_Gristle,

Pixels have extremely thin screens, apparently. I tried to get the battery replaced on an otherwise perfectly functioning Pixel a few years ago, but it ended up being cost prohibitive because replacing the battery also required replacing the screen which was “potato chip thin” according to the repair guy, and it was almost impossible to swap the battery without breaking it.

FrankTheHealer,

Vanity, marketing and buying shit unnecessarily.

I have a Fairphone 3 that I got in January 2020. Its a great device. I want to using it daily for between 5 to 10 years. And I have no doubt it will do that.

Meanwhile my brother has bought 3 Samsung devices in that time. And each one still works fine. He doesn’t need a new phone each time but he will still insist on it.

cyberpunk007,

How’s the camera on this phone? Really the only thing I care about, next to battery life

FrankTheHealer,

The camera on the Fairphone 3 is only okay. But there is an upgraded camera module you can buy from Fairphone.

I’m not much of a photographer so it doesn’t bother me. But if you take a lot of pictures, it’s something to keep in mind.

MixedUpMarbles,

There is a HUGE difference in 4 and 12 GB of ram if you’re using 20 different apps at once that are all running background tasks.

The camera raw megapixel are of little significance these days but things like optical zoom or a larger sensor and aperture make a lot of difference.

The main reason to upgrade otherwise is unsupported OS versions. you’ll stop getting security updates leaving your phone vulnerable to attack.

TheAnonymouseJoker,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

4 GB is not sufficient. Glad to have bought a 6 GB RAM device 4 years ago. 6-8 GB RAM is more than sufficient, 12 is overkill. There is some device now even with 24 GB RAM.

jjjalljs,

I buy a new phone when my current one breaks. So like every five years.

Lots of people are bad with money or don’t prioritize the same things I do. I try not to worry about this. I worry about other unimportant shit like why do people roll for stats in DND 5e.

Hexarei,
@Hexarei@programming.dev avatar

why do people roll for stats in DND 5e.

Because having a wizard with 6 CON, a chronic disease, and a built in death wish is funny as hell

Selmafudd,

I’m the same, use the phone until it refuses to function any longer then jump on a Chinese site and get the cheapest pos with a decent camera and then once it arrives watch a yt video on how to change the language to English

TheGod,

In the early 10s Smartphones evolved quickly and it was worth it to upgrade every 2nd year or even every year.

This changed when the tech stagnated. But smartphone was much cheaper in the early days so financially it probably isnt much different if you are buying flagships later now.

K0W4LSK1,

Planned obsolescence wiki link

NumbersCanBeFun,
@NumbersCanBeFun@kbin.social avatar

The smartphone era peaked in the 2010’s and its just the same garbage repackaged into a shiny new box. I miss innovation. Now all we get are phones with non removable batteries and no headphone jack.

kluevo,

Say what you will about huawei, but in the years when they were fighting to challenge Samsung, both companies made some exciting products.

Coreidan,

Those days are long over

Metallibus,

Foldables are the only interesting thing to have happened to smartphones in the past like 6-8 years. It’s kind of sad.

xthexder,
@xthexder@l.sw0.com avatar

While the tech is cool, I don’t see folding screens as an improvement, at least for me. Sure, a larger screen would be nice, but I already carry a laptop that’s WAY more capable than any phone.
All the folding phones are more expensive, less durable, worse battery life, and the software still isn’t 100% even 4 generations in.

If I actually cared about having a bigger screen on my phone, I could just buy a normal phone + a tablet for the same price as a foldable.

Hexarei,
@Hexarei@programming.dev avatar

As an avid user of a foldable, the main points for me are around the convenience and flexibility. I mean, it is literally a bigger screen, but carried around in my pocket. At all times. I don’t need to juggle account information and managing battery and storing/swapping between two devices if I want a screen that’s bigger than a usual phone for playing games on (RCT Classic, Baldur’s Gate, Bloons, Arknights, Crashlands, RuneScape… Lots of great games benefit from the better precision of playing on a bigger screen).

It’s great for reading manga, reading PDFs, watching videos, running two apps side by side (ticket on one side, team chat on the other), each with the normal screen real estate if a whole phone!

I adore the ability to pull out my phone and use it one handed like a normal phone, but then instantly switch to a much bigger, more comfortable canvas running the exact same instance of an app the moment I need to do something more involved than typing a few sentences or scrolling on Lemmy. If I realize I want to type with two hands, it’s so much faster and more comfortable on the inner screen thanks to the split keyboard.

Then it’s on top of all of that that with a flip out kickstand case on it I can carry around a pocket folding keyboard+trackpad in the other pocket and a decent pair of earbuds and then if I’m out and about I can comfortably use it like a mini laptop, writing code with Neovim via Termux or writing things down in my Obsidian vault, or even just chatting - All without it feeling like I’m squinting at a tiny phone screen.

To be fair … That could just be the autism though.

xthexder,
@xthexder@l.sw0.com avatar

I think you’ve convinced me it makes sense for the right person. Especially if it’s the only device you carry around.

I don’t game on my phone apart from some really simple ones like Minesweeper and Flow Free. Everything else I do is just reading, which I have no problem doing on my Galaxy S10’s screen. I never even considered that something like RCT or RuneScape could run on a phone now. All my serious gaming happens on a desktop or my Steam Deck.

harmonea,
@harmonea@kbin.social avatar

Gaming? Most of them are p2w or microtransaction garbage

And? You may not like them, but there's clearly an audience.

Don't buy a new phone if you don't want one, but why be so mad that other people have reasons you don't?

Freeman,

There are many good games, paid and free but no p2w, as well. They just advertise less.

where_am_i,

The world around you uses Instagram daily. They do need a better camera and all the AI photo enhancement filters. Plus, consumerism, you know.

Other than that, there’s no technical reason to buy anything better than what flafhsips were a few years back. I have one and it’s constantly underutilized.

I mean, maybe 5G or wifi 6 could be a reason to migrate.

aliceblossom,

maybe 5G or wifi 6

This is why we need phones with swappable modules. I’m pretty sure my current phone could last for decades if I could replace it’s radio equipment to keep up with modern standards.

heimchen,

I would love to build a smartphone like a Desktop Pc.

Kyoyeou,
@Kyoyeou@lemmy.world avatar

Framework Phone When

nudnyekscentryk,
@nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info avatar

Fairphone

itsJoelleScott,

Or – Christ it’s 2023 – Apple’s first fucking USB-C phone. Holy mother of god, having one stupid cable for the devices I want was a siren song of a mad god, but we’re finally here.

In 2023

AtheistAndroid,

Status symbol. That, and many people are horrible with their devices. They drop them and scratch them, crack the screen, chip them.

They abuse them and load them with tons of apps. Fill up the phone with videos and photos. The battery holds less of a charge because many people use their phones as computers and will constantly be cycling it dead 3 times a day or more.

Apps update and use more resources and space. They could just clean up their phone, do a reset, and have a case for protection but choose not to and just buy a new one.

It’s stupid I agree

Brochetudo,

I can’t see why you can’t see the difference. I’ve been swapping every few years from the lowest tier phone that’s recently come out and each change feels like night and day each and every time. Perhaps you should stop buying overpriced phones?

Kleysley,

Buying cheaper phones for the purpose of feeling the need to upgrade them sooner doesnt really make sende though, does it?

Brochetudo, (edited )

I have had three phones in the span of ten years. All of them were gifted to me via the line provider. I don’t know what you are talking about, mate,

azuth,

Well, there are some arguments pro buying cheaper phones.

  1. You have the option to upgrade, you are not obliged. Even if you finance the more expensive phone you are still committed for more. You have more options.
  2. Batteries do naturally degrade over time. No matter how expensive or good your phone is.
  3. Accidents happen some will not be covered by warranty but I also do not see more expensive phones having more than 2 years warranty which is the minimum.
  4. If you do chose to upgrade you have more phones, that means a backup or a free phone for a member of your family.
Brahm1nmam,

Point 4 is more important than some may think, you can dial 911 without an active SIM. For this reason alone I have old phones in all my gloveboxes.

Plus a couple years ago my folks were floating the river and their dry bag somehow stopped being I dry bag, I don’t remember the story cause I wasn’t there. But, when they got home, I was able to set them up with passable phones while the ones they ordered online came in the mail.

Kleysley,

Well these are some really good points! I didnt think about batteries degrading but as far as I know, the more expensive phones tend to have larger batteries which will still get you through a day without charging…

Talking about accidents, I dont think the warranty replaces accidents where you are at fault (?). My phones (cheap or expensive) always had a case and tempered glass on them and I have yet to damage any of them but I get your point, expensive phones have to last for longer. I personally worry more about how long I am going to get security updates though…

  1. Completely agree with you on this one.
oxjox,
@oxjox@lemmy.ml avatar

It used to be that a new phone came with a relatively substantial new feature set. People have become accustomed to this and businesses have been built around this. At this point, it’s mostly about consumerism.

I’m still rocking an iPhone 12 Mini without the slightest hiccup as well as an original iPhone SE as my main music player. I used to be the person who got every new phone because there used to be such a jump in performance and hardware features. Now I have no reason to upgrade at all. Honestly, I’d love to get rid of my phone all together and just use an iPad, Apple Watch, and my camera and journal.

theragu40,

Yeah this is really it. The answer is that there used to be significant technical reasons to do so. Technology improved enough each year that last year’s phones were really showing age.

At this point even basic phones are so fast and so feature rich that no one except niche groups needs anything faster than what came out several years ago. Everything basic like watching videos, maps, internet browsing, and messaging works perfectly fine on anything.

So the reasons shifted to renewing battery life and OS updates. Which are both at least somewhat artificial since manufactures could easily implement longer updates or replaceable batteries.

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