IuseArchbtw,
@IuseArchbtw@feddit.de avatar

I recently heard that manjaro cinnamon comes with Vivaldi pre-installed

Pantherina, (edited )

Is vivaldi FOSS now? In tests by mike kuketz it had nonexistent Fingerprint protection and bad privacy settings OOTB

redcalcium,

I think Manjaro devs accept, uh, sponsorship.

Perfide,

Is vivaldi FOSS now?

No

0x4E4F, (edited )

Which is why I remove it and install Vivaldi instead… and ungoogled Chromium sometimes.

yum,

Any benefits in Vivaldi over Firefox?

MagneticFusion,

Vivaldi is a great power user browser, which is generally what the Linux audience is. Firefox is pretty good for power users too and it takes the cake when it comes to privacy and security, but Vivaldi just has those exclusive features that you just can not replicate on Firefox.

abbotsbury,
@abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

What are those features?

0x4E4F,

It’s somewhat like Firefox used to be, cuztomizable UI and all that… a lot of menus with UI tweaks that just make your browser your own and make your life easier… it brings back what was taken from us when FF made some drastic changes.

far_university1990,

Have you heard of our lord and savior, firefoxcss?

Pantherina,

Custom CSS is awesome but the lack of any documentation is bogus.

abbotsbury,
@abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

How is it more customizable than Firefox? Last I used Chromium based browsers, stuff like TreeStyle Tab was impossible besides a hacky separate window whereas extensions in Firefox are able to make those drastic changes to the UI.

RmDebArc_5,
@RmDebArc_5@lemmy.ml avatar

Vivaldi has this functionality baked in. It’s basically Firefox + custom css + extensions in a refined way

abbotsbury,
@abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

Vivaldi’s vertical tabs are not comparable TreeStyle Tabs, its just a regular tab bar but vertical.

“Baked in” doesn’t really mean anything to me when it’s missing functionality and addons are only a click away.

HKayn,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

Vivaldi also has a “window panel” that is basically a tree-style list in your sidebar of all your tabs across all windows and workspaces, and recently closed tabs and sessions.

0x4E4F,

The only thing I kinda miss is the classic download tab, but I got that bookmarked and assigned a keyboard shortcut 😁.

HKayn,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

Vivaldi’s toolbar can be customized just like Firefox, but you additionally also get a bottom bar and a sidebar to place toolbar buttons on.

Vivaldi has a Spotlight-like search bar you can open with F2 to quickly find a page in your history or type any browser command like hiding the UI. You can also string multiple commands together and add them as a toolbar button.

You can add websites to your sidebar too to open them in a slide-out window of sorts (basically the same thing as Opera GX’s sidebar).

You can tile multiple tabs to open them in a split or grid view, which I haven’t found a way to replicate on Firefox so far.

And as someone else already mentioned, I personally find installing CSS and JS mods to be a lot more accessible on Vivaldi.

HappyToaster1911,

These features are why I prefer it over firefox, but I am curious about how it will be affectes by Manifest V3, if it losses things like an adblocker and dark reader, witch I doublt, them I will need to use waterfox, but even then, firefox, on phones and specially tablets its way worse

HKayn, (edited )
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

Vivaldi has released a blog post detailing how they’ll handle Manifest v3: vivaldi.com/…/manifest-v3-webrequest-and-ad-block…

TL;DR: They’re confident their built-in adblocker will continue to work despite it.

0x4E4F, (edited )

Customization wise, a lot. Speed wise, none at all (it’s slower any way you slice it). Compatibility wise (with websites), the same as Chrome, everything works.

kpw,

Browsers are bloat.
-- average Arch user

phorq,

As an arch user, I’m confused… Doesn’t everyone use curl as their browser?

rustydrd, (edited )
@rustydrd@sh.itjust.works avatar

Not related to Arch, but behold Richard Stallmann describing how he uses the internet: stallman.org/stallman-computing.html (see section “How I use the internet” and the other section below that with the same title).

acockworkorange,

I generally do not connect to web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites I have some special relationship with. I usually fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program (see git.savannah.gnu.org/git/womb/hacks.git) that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly. I usually try lynx first, then a graphical browser if the page needs it.

Fuck. What the hell.

I occasionally also browse unrelated sites using IceCat via Tor. Except for rare cases, I do not identify myself to them. I think that plus Tor plus LibreJS is enough to prevent my browsing from being associated with me. IceCat blocks tracking tags and most fingerprinting methods.

Ironically I think this makes his the most unique fingerprint in the whole internet.

nixcamic,

In fact, what I use is Maté (an English way of writing the Spanish word Mate).

As a Spanish speaker I’d just like to say

A: wtf is this even supposed to mean?
B: mate and maté are two entirely different words.
C: The mate desktop environment is named after hierba mate, no é.

Synthead,

As an Arch user, why do people care what the default packages are?

kpw,

I recently switched to netcat, this lets me control the TCP stream more directly.

vox,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

also cuter

Willer,

😭

heeplr,

Unironically Lynx and Elinks.

redcalcium,

Let me introduce you to Browsh

Kanda,

Imagine not enjoying the internet via curl

Michael717, (edited )

Imaging not enjoying the internet via raw sockets having fun decrypting manually.

rowanthorpe,
@rowanthorpe@lemmy.ml avatar

printf ‘GET / HTTP/1.0\r\n’ | openssl s_client -connect example.com:443 -ign_eof | html2text

jaybone,

BTW, I use lynx.

ArbitraryValue,

OS ships with a browser.

Boo!

OS ships with a browser.

Yay!

abbotsbury,
@abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not “shipping with a browser” that was ever the problem.

Xanvial,

your OS ships with a browser.

Boo!

my OS ships with a browser.

Yay!

ILikeBoobies,

My OS doesn’t but my DE does

marcos,

One of those is a good browser.

stockRot,

The latter can be deleted and replaced with no issue

cupcakezealot,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

unpopular opinion preinstalling any browser is wrong

Frozzie,
@Frozzie@lemmy.world avatar

I think you mistyped “popular”

idiomaddict,

That’s the lemmy echo chamber. Poll a hundred people on how to get a program onto a computer without a browser and I’d be surprised if five people answered something other than a disk or that it’s impossible

TimeSquirrel, (edited )
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

other than a disk

These days, they are probably not even going to answer with that. Optical media is almost dead now.

Kidplayer_666,

Thumb drive then

Kecessa, (edited )

Even saying “with a package manager” it’s much easier to have a browser to make a search to know what you want to enter to install using the package manager!

I’m sure many Linux users would be dead in the water if they were provided a computer with a distro without a browser/GUI package manager and no alternative way to access the internet.

Perfide,

Where the fuck would that be a popular opinion?

Quick! You need to install a program, but you can’t remember the exact name of it. You have no browser installed nor a GUI package manager. What do you do?

Frozzie,
@Frozzie@lemmy.world avatar

There is no situation where you need to install a package while having no Browser installed.

My point is that you should install the browser you want, no have preinstalled programs you may not want or live without a browser.

Perfide,

Okay, how are you going to install a browser if you don’t know what to type? Sure, I know FF is Mozilla.Firefox, but not everyone does. And besides, I actually want Vivaldi(…only as an example) instead, which I don’t know the package name for. Without a pre-existing browser or external help, how am I supposed to install Vivaldi?

I’m not disagreeing there should be options on OS setup, firefox being pre-installed with no input is barely better than Edge being pre-installed, but no browser at all by default is just stupid for most people. If we’re going with the idea of options on setup, the no browser at all option should exist, but only if it’s behind at least 1 but preferably 2 “Are you absolutely sure?” confirmation checks.

TWeaK,

Found the Arch user.

quantenzitrone,

i think it is very beneficial for the average user to have one of each common software category preinstalled

as long as you can uninstall everything

Pantherina,

If a Distro preinstalls the Torbrowser it is based. Or maybe a Firefox that is actually debloated and hardened, not just having fancy bookmarks and a custom start page (looking at you Fedora)

QuazarOmega,

I think it’s fine if you give the option to uninstall it, many users wouldn’t know where to look to install the browser right away and they need access to the internet to find out (because they’re not familiar with the command line), they probably have a phone to look stuff up, but that’s bad user experience.
Otherwise a first run welcome screen that asks the user which browser they want to install out of a selection (including none) can be a good solution

DmMacniel,

Mhm this reminds me of the time when we had in the EU a choice dialog after first boot where you had a selection of browsers to install from.

Resol,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

I’m kinda hoping they bring this back, then I can move to the EU and be done.

HappyToaster1911,

That’s a pretty bad take, people into tech seem to mostly use firefox, people who aren’t probably don’t care, and for the people who know baout it and prefer another, can well, just uninstall it, so why not just have firefox so its simpler for everyone?? Like, on Manjaro and Garuda I could do well with that, but what if I use Ubuntu? The browser I like the most is Vivaldi, witch isn’t on the package manager, meaning that I need to download a browser to download another one instead of just using the one already in it to get it

SpaceNoodle,

Meanwhile I have to install links manually

gnuplusmatt,

winget install Google.Chrome

Windows has a package manager like a big boy OS these days

Synthead,

Who packages chrome?

lemann,

I wonder how its packaged too, is winget firing off an MSI in the background with a silent flag?

slimarev92, (edited )

That’s exactly what it does.

Synthead,

Interesting. Not much of a package manager, then 🤔

DmMacniel,

It downloads a package, it installs a package and then offers to remove that package. How is it not a package manager?

Synthead, (edited )

A package typically includes the program and its data inside the package. It’s not just an install script. Imagine if Chrome’s MSI installer was simply a wrapper that also downloaded the browser. Imagine if there was a vulnerability with this, and it downloaded and installed something else. Since the package didn’t include the program files, it wouldn’t be able to tell if they were genuine. It only fetched the MSI, which was a download that initially passed the expected checksum (if it even does that).

Additionally, file lists help ensure that programs and packages don’t conflict with one another. What if you wanted Chromium and Chrome at the same time. Can you do that? Simply wrapping an MSI doesn’t guarantee that. Perhaps there are conditionals in an installer that includes a vendored library under some circumstances, which would make them conflict.

What about package removals? Some programs leave a bunch of junk behind in their uninstaller. Typically, since packages very often contain their own files, they simply delete their files when they’re being upgraded or removed. If a package manager puts full trust in an MSI to always be exactly correct, then it loses complete control over correctly managing file removals.

I could go on and on, with more examples, but “run this binary installer” is the Wild West of putting software on your system. This is mostly the status quo on Windows, but this is a very poor standard. Other operating systems have solved this problem with proper packaging for decades.

When building a package from sources, it makes sense to wrap installers, but then you produce a package that is typically distributed by a mirror. These packages would then by downloaded by you, and contain the source of truth that is trusted to be what it is and that it’ll do what it’s supposed to do without any doubts to consistency and security.

auf,

Either the community on GitHub, or someone inside Microsoft.

You can find their repository here (I think most people here are not interested in it tho lol)

I have packaged some software for winget back when I was still using Windows, and yes it runs msi ( or exe ) silently under the hood. Installation processes that are usually done on GUI are automated just like how Homebrew does.

therafal,

You need to install winget first.

auf,

I think it’s now pre-installed.

Pantherina,

Thats nice!

slimarev92,

Yeah, but it’s mid at best. Many apps open a GUI installer even with winget. Also updates for many apps don’t work (if the app doesn’t save its version properly in the registry).

Pantherina,

I mean its still Windows, they dont package anything thats the job of the apps.

puppy,

WinGet is an AppGet rip-off without even a mention of the original creator. I’m still salty about that.

Klear,

Are you the original creator?

puppy,

Nah just thought he was treated very poorly by Microsoft.

redcalcium,

Microsoft offers to buy out AppGet and had its developer join them, but then ghost him once they realized the dev is also Sonarr dev.

MNByChoice,

Sorry is AptGet something other than Debian’s “apt get”?

Corgisocks,

AppGet was a package manager for windows.

MNByChoice,

Thank you

saltesc,

Actually like the Chromium Edge; way better than Chrome. But Firefox.

pedz,

But then you use Debian and what’s preinstalled is Firefox ESR, so you have to install Firefox anyway.

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

What is wrong with Firefox “extended support release” ESR ?

pedz, (edited )

I get better performance from the release version than from ESR. The ESR version in Debian has always been slower than the release version for me. Especially on YouTube.

EDIT: For those that doubt: reddit.com/…/how_to_make_firefox_esr_work_with_yo…

lemann,

Not op, but nothing significant IMO unless you’re a web developer (in which case it’s worth considering using the dev edition instead) or just want the latest features.

The ESR on Debian gets updated reasonably frequently with backported security patches and bug fixes

Pantherina,

Not all security issues get CVEs. Thats only the security parts. Its old as balls, and Firefox never had any breaking bugs for me, thats the “old as balls” part

Sheeple,
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

But edge is chrome.

As a former edge user. I now use Firefox.

KISSmyOS,

Edge = Chrome + popup ads for Microsoft services

lud,

Edge actually has a few nice features that chrome and Firefox miss.

Like native horizontal tabs and tab groups (chrome might have groups)

I still refuse to use it over Firefox though.

Klaymore, (edited )
@Klaymore@sh.itjust.works avatar

Firefox has the (officially recommended) Simple Tab Groups addon and a couple different addons for horizontal tabs.

DrM,

It lost a lot of the super-good touchscreen PDF functionality when it switched to chromium though, which I am still mad about. I hope at one point MS will return the PDF Viewer from the original edge

Interstellar_1,
@Interstellar_1@pawb.social avatar

Floorp (A firefox fork) has native horizontal tabs

rambaroo, (edited )

Chrome does have tab groups, but I don’t find them super useful. Automatic grouping by domain would be nice for my usage since I only use chrome at work.

ILikeBoobies,

Edge = Chrome but less ram usage

joyjoy,

Yes. Firefox full time, and Edge for anything that requires Chrome.

LemmyIsFantastic,

Edge, especially for work, is fantastic.

meekah,
@meekah@lemmy.world avatar

Eh. Something makes DevOps sites load slowly when opening from outlook. Like, opening a handful of links takes a minute or so

LemmyIsFantastic,

Devops sites? What does that even mean lol?

I’ve never once had links take any sort of noticeable time to open outside of the scanner link/redirect. Which doesn’t have to do with edge or outlook. You probably are conflating two issues.

meekah, (edited )
@meekah@lemmy.world avatar

Azure DevOps. Another Microsoft product.

No other browser does this, and it only happens when opening the link from outlook. Which does make sense to me because edge has some kind of outlook integration. Probably our incompetent network admin and weird ass network and AD situation does not help, but it’s still a bunch of microsoft products that don’t work properly together.

LemmyIsFantastic,

I’m still convinced you are just noticing the redirect/link checker built into m365/ azure AD.

meekah,
@meekah@lemmy.world avatar

I was not aware that’s a thing. So you’re saying every link I get on outlook has a redirect link stuck in front of it because of azure AD? But why does that not cause chrome or firefox to load the pages slowly?

LemmyIsFantastic,

In some configurations outlook will replace links with something like this (domain is incorrect, but here’s the gist) outlookvirusscanner.outlook.com?scanredirect=theoriginalink.com

So yes, that WILL slow you down, but there is a valid reason for it. If that’s the reason I have no idea why the others wouldn’t be slow. It might just be a I use x at home vs y at work type deal?

meekah,
@meekah@lemmy.world avatar

Nope, tried around with different browsers at home and at work precisely because of the issue I mentioned.

Pantherina,

This meme makes no sense. Why would Windows want that?

Surprisingly I dont get weird popups when installing Firefox

HKayn,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

It doesn’t have to make sense as long as it bashes Windows.

MNByChoice,

Why are you guys doing default installs? Setup you preseeds and get what you want.

hglman,

My work stuff wont work in firefox, yeah that’s a new fun enterprise thing. In any case I use edge on osx for those few sites, firefox for everything else.

You999,

Will it work if you change the user agent to chrome or edge?

x4740N,
@x4740N@lemmy.world avatar

Hijacking your comment to say if people are having issues on firefox with YouTube being unresponsive change your user agent to a chrome one

hglman,

Maybe, but it’s my job and that’s the kind of stuff that gets you in trouble.

ilinamorato,

Report the sites to webcompat!

Might not do anything, but on the other hand it might!

Yerbouti,

I’m amaze by how many people still use chrome based browser. They really want to get their face eat by a leopard. Well we told you people, there’s no reason left not to use firefox.

HappyToaster1911,

Chromium isn’t chrome, and there are reasons to use browsers not based on firefox, I like Vivaldi more than firefox way better customization and more features, but since Manifest V3 exists I am using firefox so I am already used to it if Google makes the other browsers shit

nixcamic,

I’m curious what customization and features Vivaldi has that Firefox doesn’t.

WereCat,

Workgroups, tab stacking, tab tiling, side by side view of multiple websites which you can interact with at the same time within one window, keyboard only control (if desired) and more.

nixcamic,

Most or all of those are available in extensions and keyboard only I think is in stock FF but I can understand not wanting to install a million extensions to recreate that functionality. I was a die hard old school Opera user but just can’t bring myself to daily drive a chromium based browser.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • linuxmemes@lemmy.world
  • localhost
  • All magazines
  • Loading…
    Loading the web debug toolbar…
    Attempt #

    Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 134217728 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 1073152 bytes) in /var/www/kbin/kbin/vendor/symfony/http-kernel/Profiler/FileProfilerStorage.php on line 171

    Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 134217728 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 151552 bytes) in /var/www/kbin/kbin/vendor/symfony/error-handler/ErrorRenderer/HtmlErrorRenderer.php on line 262