If there’s anyone who can, please let me know if the similarities between these two formulas imply a relationship between gravity and electrical attraction or hint at a unified theory, or if it’s just a coincidence or a consequence of something else.
There’s some relation in that they both act on fields, but the things that affect those fields are very different (higgs bosons and electrons respectively) and the relationship between all that for an ‘unified theory’ is a topic of much research. IANAP though (not a physicist)
The relation between them is that they’re both forces that scale with the inverse square of the distance between the objects. Any force that scales with the inverse square of distance has pretty much the same general form.
Another similarity is that both are incomplete, first approximations that describe their respective forces. The more complete versions are Maxwell’s laws for electromagnetism and General Relativity for gravity.
It’s really simple, they are both radial fields with a 1/r potential, thus a 1/r² force. Newtonian gravity is just a weak field approximation of general relativity, where you have very different equations, for example Einsteins field equations… One electric charge creates an electric field, and another charge will interact with it, but the motion itself still depends on the mass of the second charge. Matter instead curves spacetime itself, and the curved spacetime tells matter how to move. Source: MS in physics.
Electromagnetism and gravity are both mediated by massless bosons; photons and gravitons respectively. This is why both forces follow the inverse square law.
I don’t think there’s any evidence for gravitons yet, and gravity hasn’t been quantized. I’d say it’s this similarity that’s the best argument of quantum gravity, not the other way around.
Fair. The masslessness of the bosons that should mediate gravity, along with them being spin-2, can however be deduced from the properties of gravitational waves.
We know that gravity is a wave that travels at the speed of light, this has been experimentally measured many times. If it is also quantized (a very reasonable symptom hypothesis since everything else that we’ve ever seen is) then by definition there are particles that carry gravity.
If gravity is continuous then we would end up with something like the ultraviolet catastrophe but for gravity.
Hmm, I hadn’t considered an “ultragravity catastrophe”. I wonder if this could accout for dark energy or the supposed inflatons? Probably not, the catastrophe suggests infinite energy, not just lots of energy, eh?
The ultraviolet catastrophe was averted due to the discreet nature of electrons though, and I don’t recall gravity behaving as a blackbody radiator anyway. Would this come into effect at horizons?
Sorry, I think I came off as too confident in my previous comment. I’m quite sure about my first paragraph but the rest is just speculation from an amateur.
If I would risk speculating even further though, there’s some similarity in the sense that infinities indicate a problem. In the ultraviolet catastrophe the infinity arises from the energy of arbitrarily short EM wavelengths. With gravity it arises in the density of black holes. It seems unreasonable that it would actually be infinite, and it’s possible that quantization of gravity plays a part in preventing that from happening.
Doubtful but interesting thinking. It’s actually a rather simple equation that explains how two equally weighted forces affect one another over distance. The numerator expresses that both forces carry equal weight in the interaction (if they are both the same kind of force, eg gravity or electromagnetism, this makes sense) and they are constructive interactions (both add to the intensity of the interaction) hence multiplying one by the other. The denominator just indicates that the distance between the two things exponentially degrades the force at a power of 2, since the force is spreading out in 2 dimensions (imagine a cone starting at one point and extending to the second, so that when you reach the second point the force is spread across the cross section of that cone, but the only part of the force affecting that second point is the part that touches it).
There is one thing particularly interesting, and that is that the inverse square laws appears again. It appears in the electrical laws for instance.
That is electricity also exerts forces inverse to the square of distance with charges. One thinks perhaps inverse square distance has some deep significance, maybe gravity and electricity are different aspects of the same thing
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Today our theory of physics, laws of physics are a multitude of different parts and pieces that don’t fit together very well. We don’t understand the one in terms of the other. We don’t have one structure that it’s all deduced we have several pieces that don’t quite fit yet.
And that’s the reason in these lectures instead of telling you what the law of physics is I talk about the things that’s common in the various laws because we don’t understand the connection between them.
But what’s very strange is that there is certain things that’s the same in both
Awesome to see the similarities between: Newtonian Mechanics and Quantum mechanics
Coulomb’s law was essential to the development of the theory of electromagnetism and maybe even its starting point, as it allowed meaningful discussions of the amount of electric charge in a particle.
Here, ke is a constant, q1 and q2 are the quantit>ies of each charge, and the scalar r is the distance between the charges.
Being an inverse-square law, the law is similar to Isaac Newton’s inverse-square law of universal gravitation, but gravitational forces always make things attract, while electrostatic forces make charges attract or repel. Also, gravitational forces are much weaker than electrostatic forces. Coulomb’s law can be used to derive Gauss’s law, and vice versa. In the case of a single point charge at rest, the two laws are equivalent, expressing the same physical law in different ways. The law has been tested extensively, and observations have upheld the law on the scale from 10−16 m to 108 m.
Quantum mechanics didn’t supersede electromagnetism. Again, they’re different things. Electromagnetism is a fundamental interaction. Whereas quantum mechanics describes the mechanics of quantum particles. Whether those particles are affected by electromagnetic forces or not. It’s a description of how they behave at quantum scales.
Coulomb’s law has nothing to do with quantum mechanics, it’s a description of how macroscopic charged particles interact. What the OP should have said to be correct is:
Awesome to see the similarities between: Newton’s law of gravitation and Coulomb’s law
“X depends on or is built up on Y” does not imply “X is Y”. Concepts, laws, techniques, etc. can depend or be higher-order expressions of QM without being QM. If you started asking a QM scientist about tensile strength or the Mohs scale they would (rightly) be confused.
Yes, of course. Coloumb and Maxwell had no idea about QM when they were developing their ideas. Not to mention that these higher-order abstractions are just as valid as QM (up to a point, but so is QM). Depening on the application, you’d want to use a different abstraction. EM is perfect for everyday use, as well as all the way down to the microscale.
My point is that EM is explained by QM, and therefore supercedes it. You could use QM to solve every EM problem, it’d just be waaaaay too difficult to be practical.
Guys guys, yesterday I ate some hot wings and then shit myself on the way to the toilet 🤣💪💯
Also can you really solve all em equations with qm? I always thought the laws broke down from one to the other? So you’re saying going from em to qm the laws break down but going from qm to em the laws hold up?
I feel like you’re using “supercede” differently to the rest of us. You’re getting a hostile reaction because it sounded like you’re saying that EM is no longer at all useful because it has been obsoleted (superceded) by QM. Now you’re (correctly) saying that EM is still useful within its domain, but continuing to say that QM supercedes it. To me, at least, that’s a contradiction. QM extends EM, but does not supercede it. If EM were supercedes, there would be no situation in which it was useful.
Ngl after Apollo shut down I tried the website and I hate how every time you finish looking at a post and decide to go back to the feed it throws you back to the top meaning you have to scroll all the way back down to where you originally was
Certainly not any of the main changes made by the new Reddit UI. Except maybe the collapse thread buttons being long, vertical bars. That was a good idea.
To clarify: I also use RES, so that’s what I’m thinking of when I say old.reddit.
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