Fervently disagree, it has squandered all it could have been and the writing is still absolutely awful. Granted, it’s a notch above Discovery and Picard.
It’s why I simply do not respect the opinions of people who say “I gave up on Discovery/SNW/Picard/LD in the first or second season.” I never have and I never will. That stance has an extreme double standard and I simply do not have a single ounce of respect for people who push it.
Those shows have around 10 episodes a season.
TNG, DS9, and VOY had about 20-24 per season.
They also ALL started with some really shitty opening seasons. Voyager didn’t get going until season 4ish, DS9 didn’t until late season 2/season 3. TNG took about two seasons to fully find its feet and have some of the most godawful TV of all Star Trek.
The same people whinin about New Trek will sit through all that garbage but won’t sit through 2 seasons of Discovery/Picard when it’s fewer episodes than a single season of OldTrek
If you say you don’t like the show then you don’t like the show. But anyone who says" I gave up after Season 1 or Season 2" I just immediately write off. I’ll still be respectful and kind and polite and care about them but opinions on what is and isn’t good Star Trek? Discarded on sight.
When I would re-watch TNG I used to skip the first two seasons. They’re pretty rough, but then I missed some of the good ones (measure of man, for example). Now I just skip the individual crappy ones.
I think people are holding SNW in such high regard because when it’s compared to the rest of nu-trek, it’s god tier. By itself, it’s ok. I like it well enough. Plenty of stinkers episodes though. I still have hope for it.
The best Star Trek show is the one you like the most. If that’s Discovery, that’s fine. And if you don’t like the show, that’s also fine. But making an overall declaration that a show is terrible and tacitly expecting everyone to agree is not cool.
I’m not expecting everyone agree whether or telling anyone whether or not they should or shouldn’t like it, but there are many more demonstrable issues with writing and plotting, let alone canon, that exist in excess throughout Discovery, Picard, and SNW. These are objective issues that actual writers have taken issue with, and they’re consistent issues with the executive producers involved.
Absolutely TNG or DS9 aren’t some pantheon of perfection, but from an overall standpoint of consistency, narrative continuity, and proper handling of characters and their development? They’re lightyears beyond the juvenile handling of characters and plots in the post 09 FMV shows. It’s just fact.
First off, no clue what your opening line is even attempting to say.
Second, no. It isn’t “just fact” lol
Listing examples instead of rambling opinions is far more convincing if you’re trying to get people to believe you. Especially when you claim that there are “many” issues, that they’re “objective” and that “writers have taken issue with.”
Moreover, if you want to share fact then separate the opinion from it. I am not taking you seriously both for the lack of example but also the fact that you are showing too much of your own opinion. The juvenile comment, the angry energy, saying “actual” writers to discredit people you disagree with further. Also the like “It’s just fact” is rarely spoken by people who are simply sharing objective fact.
Really hard to take someone at face value when they’re so angry and bitter.
You’re ascribing a lot of emotional baggage to what I typed on my phone while pedaling a stationary bike that doesn’t exist.
I’m not here to argue the finer points of plot holes in these productions that have been under spotlights for years and detailed far better by people with enough time to make hundreds of videos on the subjects like Robert Meyer Burnett, Nitpicking Nerd, and Red Letter Media.
If you enjoy these shows, fantastic, more power to you. Just don’t tell me they’re amazingly well-made and just as good as previous incarnations of Star Trek when they can and have been analyzed ad nauseam, displaying exactly how they aren’t.
Robert Meyer Burnett, Nitpicking Nerd, and Red Letter Media.
…This is not the take you thing it is lol
Red Letter Media
Ah yes. The self proclaimed racists who use ragebaiting as their primary method of getting people to watch their videos.
Nitpicking Nerd
Ah yes. The dude who openly uses his cynicism in his username and who constantly uses ragebaiting as well to get people to watch his videos.
Robert Meyer Burnett
Fucking who?
Like I said. Unless you are providing examples then I’m simply not taking you seriously. Your dismissal of it entirely and refusal to even attempt to defend your position means you simply don’t have a valid one.
I like the shows but that has nothing to do with this conversation. My liking of the show isn’t the reason why I’m expecting an unbiased/critical review. It’s simply because I have standards. Doesn’t matter if it is for Star Trek, Star Wars, or some show i’ve never even heard of. Anyone who’s going to inject their own emotional opinion into a review, and then refusal to even elaborate on position while doubling down, is someone whose opinion is just not worth the time to read to it.
You have the humans of the enlightened future meeting a team of military personnel from the past, lead by a man who tries to avoid enlightenment whenever possible. He’d probably end up in Quark’s playing darts.
Carter is going to immediately frustrate any attempts to limit damage to the timeline (not that it makes sense given that they’d have to be from a parallel reality) or invoke the prime directive. She’s going to be full of questions, and she knows enough about advanced alien technology that she’ll probably be able to figure out more than they’d want just from observation. She’d also probably figure out how to use the wormhole to get back home, being something of an expert on the topic.
Daniel is going to have the unique experience of being an archeologist that is now a relic of the past. Not much for him to do as a linguist since they have universal translators, though it would be funny if they brought it up and he thought they had all just been speaking English, since everyone in their galaxy does for some reason. It’d also be funny for him to be recognized by the prophets or Q, as though they knew him from his brief period as a vorlon or whatever.
I think Dax and Teal’c would hit it off, they have so much in common.
And things would get very confusing if someone activated an emh.
Also probably for the best that the Atlantis team isn’t there, as O’Brien would have some awkward questions to answer. Besides, they’re already too busy crossing over with Enterprise and answering their own awkward questions about Tripp.
Oh, and I really hope Jellico is visiting the station.
The Prime Directive wouldn’t even apply. The Tau’ri have been properly FTL capable ever since they started producing the F-302 in what, the year 2000? As much as Starfleet would hate it, SG1 represents a humanity that is wearing the big boy pants just like they are.
If we aren’t being strict about warp technology specifically as the measuring stick, I think the gate network itself would qualify, even if they weren’t the ones that built it.
That said, the principle of noninterference likely should apply to some extent at least. After all the trash talking they’ve done over the years about people in the 20th/21st century, it would be crazy to let a military unit from that era get access to anything that might help them advance technologically. Especially when they’ve already got a history of capturing and reverse engineering alien technology. And all the more so when it becomes clear that any technology they do get their hands on will be used almost exclusively for the purpose of fighting alien civilizations (and perhaps even others on their own planet).
In the long run, if a stargate found it’s way onto DS9 or Bajor and permanent relations were established, I could see the federation providing aid to the Tau’ri to help them fend off the Goa’uld and/or the Ori, which they could justify because they would be preventing an advanced civilization from exploiting a technologically inferior one. But I have to think it would take them a while to get to that point.
They’d presumably talk us into favoring zats (and those red stun rounds that only showed up in a few episodes) over lethal force that’s only equally effective.
We’d make exceptions for replicators. They’d understand. They fight the Borg on the regular.
Then again the SGC has a policy of sharing supplies and rendering humanitarian aid when they can afford to but not sharing military equipment unless they really think it’s for the better. Starfleet should give them at least some credit for that; it’s remarkably close to common Starfleet practice.
In the end, though, it really demonstrates how the Prime Directive is a flawed measuring stick and always has been. People like the Klingons (hyper-aggressive), the Ferengi (hyper-capitalists who bought their way into space), and the Cardassians (space Nazis) are cool but the Tau’ri are sketchy because they bring guns when they explore space.
I’m pretty sure O’Neill would be happy to comment on how Starfleet and their equipment sure look military from the outside even if they bring civilians on their combat-ready vessels equipped with weapons of mass destruction. And how his humanity didn’t nuke itself. Well, except those Genii guys but they don’t count. Different humanity.
By the time the Ori have been dealt with, the Tau’ri have been outright declared the worthy successors of two of the most advanced civilizations their galaxy had ever seen. And each of those civilizations had lasted for millions of years so it’s not like it’s power-hungry psychos giving each other pats on the back. That still doesn’t change Starfleet’s point about their cultural advancement but makes it that much harder to cleanly argue.
It’s like they were made to turn the usual Federation talking points into complicated messes.
(On the other hand they can only hope the Federation never hears about how many solar systems they managed to destroy, usually by accident. Now that’s a good reason not to trust them with advanced technology.)
Kira struggles with the ethics of terrorism, her connections to her past, and the future of her people. Nog visits all the members of the senior staff, trying to get them to do his homework for him.
I feel like the problem with Discovery is the same of the warp 10 episode in Voyager. A bunch of people create the most OP way of travelling and barely use it, and don’t tell me that the ship is unique and Stamets is the only person in the universe in the following centuries to be able to use it, because that just doesn’t make any sense, it’s a cheap trick to justify why such an incredible technology has never been mentioned after, not even by a super villain that gives no crap about genetic augmentation.
At least with Voyager you could just write it off as a badly written episode, but you cannot ingore a whole series. Yes even TNG had some magical guy make the ship travel fantaszilion light years, but at least it was out of their control and they could not exploit it.
Also, Trek shows have not been the most consistent ever, but Discovery really went their way on completely distegarding every Star Trek lore existing in the first season which, personal theory, is a major reason for the writers to “get rid” of the ship at the end of season two. Discovery just did not make sense in the universe created by the othee series, to put it where it does no more damage.
I feel like the issue with Discovery is that it just shoe-horns in an overproduced and under considered last 2 episodes every season in the name of “stakes”.
A bunch of people create the most OP way of travelling and barely use it, and don’t tell me that the ship is unique and Stamets is the only person in the universe in the following centuries to be able to use it, because that just doesn’t make any sense, it’s a cheap trick to justify why such an incredible technology has never been mentioned after, not even by a super villain that gives no crap about genetic augmentation.
That wasn’t really the reason, the reason wasn’t nobody else could figure it out or that nobody wanted to do it because it required genetic modification, the reason was that jumping on the mycelial network was actively killing it unless I am misremembering things which is in line with the rest of star trek’s ethos (how about the DS9 episode where they help the dominion destroy a trans warp gate for example? There are other technologies that are abandoned and hidden for the greater safety of the universe all over Star Trek, it can be really silly I agree but I don’t think discovery is unique here.
In Discovery, instead of honorable warriors, the klingons are a bunch of sneaky backstabbing and coward warriors. They also don’t look like klingons at all, both in appearance and architecture, the speak like their mouth is full of potatoes and for some reasons they make ships out of coffins.
I’m not against change, what I don’t like is calling another thing with its name just because you get to be part of a franchise. The only thing they have in common with klingons of other series is the language and that they want to kill. All the modifications they made, just for the sake of it, makes it look like they wanted to use the standard scifi appearal of standard bad aliens and just put the name “klingons” on it. No surprise they reverted this change and discarded all of this in season two.
Btw “the klingons started growing their hair again” might be the single most stupid line I’ve ever heard in a Trek show, especially considering the reason why it was said.
In Discovery, instead of honorable warriors, the klingons are a bunch of sneaky backstabbing and coward warriors.
Like they are in TOS?
They also don’t look like klingons at all
Are you similarly upset by the change in appearance the occurred between TOS and TMP?
and architecture
Architecture? I don’t know, the House Mo’Kai fortress we see in season two doesn’t seem all that out of place. The rounded towers of the capital city seen in ENT is a greater divergence than anything we see in Disco. But that’s also fine, because architectural styles change over time.
the speak like their mouth is full of potatoes
And apparently, according to experts in the language, that’s the best Klingon has ever sounded on screen. Not really sure how that qualifies as a lore thing, though.
The retcon is that the whole spore drive program was actively suppressed, because any knowledge of Discovery and/or Control would lead to cosmic apocalypse. And so part of Section 31’s imprimatur was to work behind the scenes and prevent it and other disruptive tech from seeing the light. And other civilizations did the same, because the same thing happened to them at some point in their history.
It’s pretty sweaty, and requires quite a bit of stretches credulity, but it beats a lazy handwave.
I assume the spore drive is in a wood box in section 31s “neato beans” warehouse next to Rikers “phase through matter and I guess go invisible whatever do what you want bro” cloak.
It could have been solved if they just decided that the mycelium network got destroyed. They could have had Control release a weapon that destroyed it or something. I agree, “never talk about this” doesn’t make sense when science progresses and someone else could have easily discovered it. And I’m guessing there were plenty of spies from Romulus and other such places that became aware of at least the basics of the spore drive.
They couldn’t have destroyed the network, because it was strongly implied that it was a fundamental aspect of the universe itself. What would have been better is if some higher-dimensional beings living there said “You abused the privilege, and your rights to use this network have been revoked”.
I don’t think you need to do a ‘god said so.’ That’s a real deus ex machina. I’m sure there are ways to make the network unusable for travel in crafting the show.
Honestly, I liked it much more than I thought, given what I saw on YouTube before watching the entire season, especially the klingon battles. After season 1 it gets much better, which seems to be a recurring theme in Trek shows, but for a very different reason herr.
Altought I really don’t like most character (especially Burhnam) and I find most of the representation of seasoned officers overly dramatic and silly (looking at you Tilly), most of the themes are well treated and some episodes were particularly good (I enjoyed the mirror episodes more than I could think possible given the first episodes).
Sometimes it feels a very generic scifi show and it doesn’t get me too attached, but it’s a decent enough show to keep watching.
I never have high expectations for a sci-fi show’s first season, because most of them are still finding their footing, which is harder to do with sci-fi and its dramatic plots than it is with a sitcom. So while I agree, Discovery got a lot stronger after season 1, I let a lot of stuff in season 1 slide. I just wish they had found better resolutions to things in season 1 in later seasons.
Haha I didn’t think people still retained that ancient knowledge of motoring success. The good ole days of weak 4-cylinder cars and trucks, when you’d disengage the AC to get more power to go up a hill or something. I’ve met several people who didn’t know it was even a thing.
Yes of course they are, but modern 4-cylinder engines have advanced a lot since the old days of last century’s engines.
Today it’s not hard to find a 4-cylinder that can put out 100 horsepower per liter, or even more. They can pull that little car up the hill with the AC on full blast.
This is the reason I don’t like materialization/dematerialization transporters. Not only do they have the risk of coordinate failure like in the meme, but also:
The person on the other side isn’t guaranteed to be the same person when rematerialized. There’s the ontological argument that when you’re dematerialized, you die as your physical form is eliminated and that the person appearing on the other side is merely a clone of you, but not you.
Alien interference or environmental contamination can mess up the person on rematerialization. Even small changes can alter the delicate brain chemistry we meatbags have.
Being stuck in the ship’s memory buffer while it verifies an open teleporter slot can’t be very fun or comfortable.
This is why I only support non-dematerializing wormhole based travel where spacetime itself opens for you to enter. Less chance of mistakes.
Except the Stargate also dematerializes you. Also there’s no way of guaranteeing that the gate on the other end is open and there’s apparently no safety protocols to ensure that it is so you could open the gate and then step through and just die.
Oh you know it could be underwater.
Or in space.
Or around a black hole in which case you die even if you don’t enter.
Really they’re actually quite dangerous technology and definitely not safe.
The first ever Star Trek tie-in novel, Spock Must Die, dealt with the implications of the first issue you brought up when Spock is accidentally duplicated by the transporter.
The person on the other side isn’t guaranteed to be the same person when rematerialized. There’s the ontological argument that when you’re dematerialized, you die as your physical form is eliminated and that the person appearing on the other side is merely a clone of you, but not you.
The person on the other side isn’t guaranteed to be the same person when rematerialized. There’s the ontological argument that when you’re dematerialized, you die as your physical form is eliminated and that the person appearing on the other side is merely a clone of you, but not you.
Roughly every 7 years for most of the body, major organs tend to take longer, more like 10. Your brain replaces cells at a way slower rate, you’ll only Theseus your brain about 80% at best if you live a long healthy life.
The single line “I fell asleep reading a particularly erotic chapter in my grandmother’s journal” is worthy of it honestly. I don’t think any other sequence of 12 words can evoke anything close to the emotional rollercoaster I felt when that sentence was spoken.
risa
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