IvanOverdrive,

Disco was hot garbage except for that one episode where they ran out of budget and told a decent groundhog day story. Pike carried me through the second season though. And the only interesting character was the spidey-sense alien dude. Didn’t bother with season 3.

Picard. Well… I only lasted ten minutes into the first episode. Noped out when the motorbike helmet Romulan ninja killed the roommate with a knife. Guess they couldn’t afford stun mode on a phaser or something.

Strange New Worlds is great. I’d rank it better than Voyager but not quite original series quality. Not yet anyway. And when Jack Quaid popped out the other side of the portal, that’s when I thought I’d give Lower Decks a chance.

thebardingreen,
@thebardingreen@lemmy.starlightkel.xyz avatar

Just watch the last season of Picard. Forget the other two seasons and pretend they don’t exist. You don’t need them, the final seasons stands on it’s own.

hesusingthespiritbomb,

I gave discovery a chance. I ended up quitting around the third season.

It wasn’t just that it was bad. It was how it was bad. 90s trek did an extremely good job at discussing important and relatable concepts through the lens of sci-fi. It also did a great job of introducing us to fairly whacky and diverse ideas that made space seem vast and unknowable.

Discovery seemed to abandon a lot of that. It’s kinda there on the surface, but under further inspection it falls apart. The discussion of serious topics was extremely shallow to the point where it felt low effort. The entire world seems to revolve around what the main characters are doing, which makes the entire setting feel small. A lot of the justification for this was spending that time on better character development, but when I stopped watching every character except Saru felt sort of underdeveloped.

Not to mention it does things that made me feel like that writers either didn’t know or didn’t care about previous star trek TV shows. Those Klingons neither looked nor acted like Klingons. Most of the discovery crew don’t act like Starfleet officers. I finally lost it at the Burn. I guess it’s technically canon, but it really doesn’t feel that way. We saw multiple different types of FTL methods in 90s trek, and we saw Wesely grow dilithium as part of a high school science project. Plus the idea of there being one element the entire galaxy uses for Warp travel, again, makes the entire setting feel extremely small.

Finally, I feel like Discovery was being reviewed by people who were more interested in propagating the culture war than watching Star Trek. I remember reading articles gushing about how Burnham was the first black captain. Or how Tilly breaks the mold because all other major female characters in Trek were more stereotypical women. Or how the negative reaction to Discovery was from bigoted fans too fragile to watch a show that doesn’t mostly consist of cis straight white men.

The last part was the most infuriating. It’s incredibly obvious they were toning down a lot of what I star trek to appeal to the mass market. Fine. I’ve watched a lot of mid sci-fi. I watched all three JJ Abrams Star Trek movies, the first two sequel star wars movies, Dark Matter before it got good, etc. However it’s infuriating being attacked for it.

bi_tux,
@bi_tux@lemmy.world avatar

I think it’s really nice how tng and ds9 fit so well together, they could be the same show

pomodoro_longbreak,
@pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

They do fit well together, but they are very much not the same show. They are like two differently shaped puzzle pieces.

Closer to the end TNG did get more character development, though. I wonder how much of that is thanks to Babylon 5. I remember the end of TNG, beginning of DS9, and B5 all being very close together.

JWBananas,
@JWBananas@startrek.website avatar

we saw Wesely grow dilithium as part of a high school science project

We also saw Wesley mention that the Klingons had joined the federation.

Things change.

ValueSubtracted,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

we saw Wesely grow dilithium as part of a high school science project.

Wow, what a significant development - which episode was that?

hesusingthespiritbomb,

I don’t know the number off the top of my head.

The plot revolves around a wargames scenario. There is for some reason an alien race that is really good at war strategies. There is an advisor from that race on the enterprise.

The advisor is a massive dick. However he’s also somewhat legit. He beats data at some strategy game.

The enterprise is set to fight a decommissioned federation ship. Half the crew comes over there. It’s led by Riker. Wesely is also over there. He snuck his dilithium science project aboard. He tells Riker about it. Riker is happy, because it’s enough dilithium to give him like a second of warp. He thinks he can use it in a surprise attack.

The science project itself isn’t super complex. LaForge was mildly impressed when Wesely told him about it, in a way that made it feel like he’s smart for his age. He started the entire project like two weeks ago.

Anyway in the middle of this the ferengi show up. This is one of the times they aren’t complete jokes. They start attacking Riker’s ship because they think it’s valuable or something. The enterprise can’t easily stop them because they are carrying dummy rounds. Riker ends up using the Dilithium is some sort of bluff to beat the ferengis.

The episode ends with Data and the alien strategist playing the game again. The strategist gets upset and rage quits. It’s revealed that Data realized that last time he was playing to win, so this time he was playing to not lose. He basically got the alien into a stalemate.

There are also a million other reasons why the Burn doesn’t make that much sense. The Klingons use Trilithium. The Romulans used a contained singularity. In Voyager we saw a number of potential non-dilithium alternatives. One of them was a glorified slingshot.

There’s also just the thematic implications. Star Trek has always been portrayed as this big diverse galaxy. There are a ton of alien races running around doing weird things that we only grasp the surface of. There are even more alien races we’ll never meet. There are races that have technology beyond our comprehension, and races that are effectively Gods.

I think the writers handwaved the entire thing away so that the Burn technically doesn’t break canon. Just like La’Rell winning the chancellorship is canon. However it feels almost antithetical to what we know about the setting.

ValueSubtracted, (edited )
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

The plot revolves around a wargames scenario. There is for some reason an alien race that is really good at war strategies. There is an advisor from that race on the enterprise.

Ah, that would be “Peak Performance”, in which Wesley has an experiment that has something to do with high-energy plasma reactions with antimatter, and nothing whatsoever to do with growing dilithium. Swing and a miss.

The Klingons use Trilithium.

Strike two - trilithium is an unstable explosive that is used in the engines of exactly no one. The Klingons do use tritium as an intermix, but as you are aware, that simply replaced the role that deuterium plays in Starfleet designs - it has nothing to do with dilithium.

The Romulans used a contained singularity.

This is the closest you’ve come to having something. Of course, there’s exactly zero information on how those drives operate or are manufactured, along with the pesky fact that the Romulans have enslaved an entire race to mine dilithium for them, which is…not something you typically do to obtain a substance that you don’t need. We’ll call it a foul ball.

In Voyager we saw a number of potential non-dilithium alternatives. One of them was a glorified slingshot.

What did we learn about how these alternatives are powered, particularly considering that several of them were plugged into Voyager’s warp core without too much trouble? You get bonus points if you can identify the one that was specifically described as “not antimatter,” which is most likely (but not guaranteed) to exclude dilithium.

So far we’ve got two strikes and two fouls. You’re still at bat.

hesusingthespiritbomb,

Look you’ve clearly made up your mind. I don’t think there’s anything anyone could do to convince you. You’re talking to me in a way that’s condescending and disrespectful, so I certainly don’t want to be the one to try.

ValueSubtracted,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

I have made up my mind about your factual errors, yeah. You’re not going to convince me of things that aren’t true.

hesusingthespiritbomb,

You’ve made up your mind about being a condescending asshole. You used a baseball analogy to “grade” my comment. Then you had the gall to imply that you’re giving me one more chance to convince you, presumably so you could get one more jab in.

ValueSubtracted,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

I’m just very interested in people who, you know, tell the truth. It shouldn’t be that challenging…

hesusingthespiritbomb,

People like you are the reason the Internet gets so toxic.

ValueSubtracted,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

Damn me and my suggestion that people should fact-check themselves rather than make up a show to be mad at!

hesusingthespiritbomb,

It’s not what you’re saying, it’s how you’re talking to me. You’ve approached the entire conversation from an adversarial standpoint. You’ve acted as if you were the ultimate arbiter of truth despite getting your facts wrong, and expected me to keep going with the conversation despite showing complete disrespect for me. Every single comment is dripping with this condescending attitude, and written in a way that makes me feel like the overwhelming majority of your sofial interactions are through either Lemmy or Reddit.

If you tried this in real life, I would have just awkwardly agreed with you and changed the subject. If you did this on a regular basis I wouldn’t hang out with you. Yet for some reason this kind of snarky antisocial behavior is not only common, but in fact rewarded.

ValueSubtracted,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

despite getting your facts wrong

By all means, enlighten me. I admire your dedication to tone policing, but it’s starting to feel just a little bit like you’re doing everything you possibly can to avoid addressing the topic at hand.

That couldn’t possibly be it, though.

If you did this on a regular basis I wouldn’t hang out with you.

Truly tragic.

hesusingthespiritbomb,

Believe what you want man.

qarbone,

That bit about Burnham had me double-checking myself because I’m an affliate Trekkie at best but I remember a character named Sisko who was black and some kind of commanding officer. And I haven’t even watched 20% of available Star Trek content.

hesusingthespiritbomb,

I don’t know if you’re joking but yes. Benjamin Sisco was a black captain. Janeway was a female captain. You also had other women and minority bridge officers acting in a variety of different ways.

While some elements of the female characters were problematic, I’d argue every single female bridge officers was less of a stereotype than Tilly. I’ve seen some form of the “adorkable nerd who is written as a Mary Sue because she’s clearly a stand in for one of the writers” archetype just about everywhere these days.

qarbone, (edited )

Nah, I honestly couldn’t remember. I’ve seen like random episodes from Picard and Kirk-era Trek and recently The Lower Decks. I’m an affliate because even though I don’t consume most Star Trek media, I enjoy what it brings to the culture and community of sci-fi.

It’s absolute jokes when people pave over existing examples, so they can be close to the center of the class photo for the new “thing”.

“We’ve devised this new way of consuming bread: by cutting it into thinner layers!”

hesusingthespiritbomb,

If you don’t have time to sit down and watch Star Trek go with Voyager. IMO it’s the weakest of 90s Trek, but is still pretty solid.

qarbone,

Thanks for the rec

noobnarski,

The older star trek also usually had one story in each episode, and just a little bit of an overarching plot, so much of the time of the episode was actually used to tell a story.

Discovery adopted this soap-like storytelling, where there is one long story broken up into episodes. Each episode has something interesting at the start, then just a lot of filler, and when it finally starts to get interesting again the episode is over and they spoil half of the next episode with the “coming next” segment.

So instead of making something people want to watch because its interesting, they just manipulate you to watch it because they string you along.

Picard does the same, but at least they have some interesting content in the middle of an episode sometimes.

hesusingthespiritbomb,

Yeah I think their insistence on a low episode serial format is a huge part of the problem. DS9 is a great example of how narrative storytelling can work in Star Trek, but it only came after they did years of character development and world building.

I think SNW S2 has done a good job taking a step back and just having individual episodes that let the setting and character grow. “Under the Cloak of War” was one of the best Trek episodes of all time.

flicker,

Stamets, it's not like you to let the trolls get to you. I noticed yesterday but didn't feel like you'd appreciate that from a near stranger but it's even worse today.

You good, friend?

(Addendum for any reader; I know that culturally, pet names are seen as insulting in other parts of the world, but in my line of work and my part of the country, I had to delete like 10 "sugar," "honey," "darlin" and "love"s. Please keep in mind that it's meant well if you see someone like me slip up in the future.)

Stamets,
@Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

No. Honestly, I’m not but it is whatever. Think I’m gonna take a break from Lemmy for a couple days.

Have talked about how I lost my best friend a couple weeks ago over on Mastodon. Before finding that place, he was the only other person in my life who was a Trek fan and who liked Discovery. Moreover, he was positive. He had opinions of stuff he didn’t like but he focused on the positive. We both liked each other for that reason. In a world with so much negativity and hatred and bitterness, it was nice to be able to enjoy something together. However we both did shy away a lot from the Trek communities because of the often toxicity that brews against newer Treks. If we were online and encountered it, we’d go to one another. Talk about how silly other people were. How they claimed to be huge fans of Star Trek but often neglected the lessons of the show and wanted to be angry all the time. Couldn’t enjoy things for what they were and they certainly couldn’t let other people enjoy them.

He’s dead now and can’t say or do anything. They can. They’re still around.

I’m finding it really hard to deal with a lot of people online without him. So much negativity and it’s like the port that you’d shelter the storm in is suddenly gone. Just being tossed on the waves, drowning and being terrified and not having any light or anyone around.

Yesterday was just… not a good day. Nothing specific. I was just having a rough day and acted like a fool. Then me and my idiot self decided to post this meme about NuTrek and for some stupid reason I hoped that it would be positive this one time. Just once.

I’m tired of having rogue waves fling this vessel with reckless abandon.

I’m tired of feeling hopeless.

I’m tired of the reminders that he’s gone.

Tired of sitting here like a fucking idiot and crying over fucking internet comments because I’m too emotionally unstable to cope with anything. It’s the internet. People are always going to fucking suck. I shouldn’t have expected otherwise and I shouldn’t have posted this thinking anything else would happen. Also certainly shouldn’t have done it when my only crutch is gone.

It’s whatever. It’s my fault. I’m just being stupid. Sorry for whining and i’ll be back in a few days.

keefshape,

We appreciate you Stamets. A god amongst people.

rockandsock,

You’re not stupid. Losing a close friend is a really tough thing and not something you just shrug off.

Sorry for your loss. Don’t let internet assholes make you feel bad for having feelings.

SkyeStarfall,

Damn, I’m only a stranger that’s been seeing you around, but I’ve always appreciated what you post, and loss sucks… indescribably bad. I hope things get better, and I wish you the best.

I’d send a hug but idk if that’s appropriate lol. Either way you deserve one.

PochoHipster,

Sorry for your loss stamets. Fwiw, I actually like Discovery too, even if I disagree vehemently with the Klingon makeup design choices made

Thisfox,

Hugs mate.

There are those of us out here who like Discovery. We just happen not to be vocal enough. Take care of yourself and be kind. I enjoy your presence.

Numberone,

You’re right. I’m mostly a lurker and when I do want to say something it’s more often than not sarcastic and shitty. What you say hits home and really makes me regret some of my Lemmy history. I’m sorry that life is hitting you so hard, the world is such a mess now and it really is hard to stay positive. But that’s what Star Trek is supposed to be about. Sorry we’ve let you down. That’s on us. Look after yourself my fellow trekie. Take my thanks for all that you do for the community. You’re a Trekkie god among lurkers. Live long and prosper 🖖

MrPoopyButthole, (edited )
@MrPoopyButthole@lemmy.world avatar

I’d just like to remind you that you’re responsible for giving internet strangers like me uncontrollable laughs, warm fuzzy feelings, and a sense of community. Thank you for that. I’m sending my love and appreciation to you in hope that it helps you weather the storm in this difficult time 💙

Wes_Dev,

I don’t know you, but I hope things get better for you. I’ve been in that pit more times than I can count. Nothing I can say will pull you out. So, give yourself a big hug and take what time you need. Wishing you well.

antik,
@antik@lemmy.world avatar

Take some time bro ❤️

Chetzemoka, (edited )

Stamets, I’m so sorry. I hadn’t heard. I’ve lost people under bad circumstances. It’s not fair. The world should stop, everything should stop moving and everyone should stop what they’re doing and acknowledge the depth of loss and the void left where they used to be. But it doesn’t stop moving and that’s not fucking right and it’s not fucking fair.

Please do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. Just do what’s next. Your only obligation in the world right now is to wake up and breathe. Everything else is bonus points. We’ll be here whenever you’re ready or even if you never want to talk to any of us again.

I’m so sorry that a good person is gone.

flicker,

Take some time for you.

I've lost a lot of people. A lot of friends. And you're right, the internet is full of angry people who just want to be angry, but moreover, it's chaotic and unpredictable. It sounds like you can use some extra grace, some extra protection, and some extra kindness. You would give it to anyone else in your position, so it's the least you can do for you.

We haven't really met, but don't become a statistic. There's not many of us left who made it. Each time we lose one more, that means those of us left have that much more to work for, but what we work for becomes that much more precious.

The world can handle itself for a couple days. Rest and regroup. Everything will still be there when you're ready for it (if you ever are!)

MashedPotatoJeff,

Losing a friend is so hard. It affected me in ways I never expected. Family is easier in some ways.

The kind people are out there, but they’re harder to see sometimes, especially on the internet. Hang in there, and be kind to yourself.

agent_flounder,
@agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

It’s fucking awful to lose a friend. I’m so sorry.

I think you’re right about taking a break from social media. It can get exhausting and depressing. So much toxicity, doom, negativity, etc. It can really drag a guy down. (I was going to skip it today as I’ve been in the dumps).

FWIW I have enjoyed the hell out of Discovery. I haven’t had a show hook me that much in a while. Not done binging yet, though. Some people really do like to rag on stuff. I think life is better when one focuses on the positive instead of always trying to pick shit apart. And it’s better for others to let them enjoy what they enjoy.

I’m sure any of us would be glad to give you “cover fire” anytime. I know I’m not alone in saying you’ve been a positive energy for Lemmy.

Anyway…yeah, things will feel better in a few days. People out there care, k? Peace.

GoodbyeBlueMonday,

I struggle to find what to say, because I’m just some random schmuck on the internet. Plenty of people post vile comments, so I’m going to post a saccharine one, in honor of your friend.

Others have said it already, but I’ll say it again because why not: your voice online has been a pleasure.

Grief is terrible, and I’m sorry you lost a loved one. I’m lucky enough to have a friend like the one you describe. We’re a big part of each others’ support system, and a lot of what we talk about winds up being Trek. I say that only to let you know that your grief will help me remember why I should cherish my friend, while we’re both around. Maybe that doesn’t do you any good, hopefully it doesn’t come across as selfish/insensitive on my part (if so, you have my apology in advance), but maybe it’s some consolation that you and your buddy are inspiring others who have never even met you. We all have an effect on people’s lives, whether we know when it happens or not. Just being some kind of role model, even in a small way, will influence people for the better. That’s my hope, anyway. So you and your buddy have clearly been doing this for a lot of us, here. I’m sure elsewhere. You don’t owe any of us anything, but I know seeing your positivity makes me smile.

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, but those J.J. Abrams movies were still terrible. Star Trek made by someone who doesn’t like Star Trek. No.

VaultBoyNewVegas,

Did the same to star wars. He must hate sci fi because he’s ruined every sci fi show/movie he’s been involved in.

Shialac,

tbh I think JJ is just not a good director and way too overhyped

USSBurritoTruck,
@USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website avatar

Hollywood nepo babies are a real problem.

chaogomu,

He did a wonderful job on Lost... Well, the early set-up for Lost.

See, JJ is phenomenal at building up mystery boxes. He's just shit at putting anything inside those boxes.

He can lay out questions and hints at world building like no other. He just never goes back and does any of that world building.

Stamets,
@Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

Star Trek directed by someone who doesn’t like Star Trek. There were a lot of people on those movies who really loved Star Trek and it showed through. They’re not the best, that’s for sure, but I still like them for what they are. However I will say that Beyond is definitely my favorite. Might have something to do with JJ not directing it at all and it feeling like an interesting mix of a TOS episode and Kelvin timeline action/adventure.

Also Idris Elba.

Doug,

I think Beyond was my least favorite of the newer ones personally, but I’d still put it above the last time I watched Motion Picture so it seems silly to me to trash those while elevating all the old ones.

Star Trek is a universe of things between campy and serious. It’s possible enjoy them all, or ignore the ones to don’t.

rambaroo,

No one really does that though. The Motion Picture being a bad a movie is widely acknowledged by pretty much everyone. The classics are II-VI, except for V which also sucks.

Doug,

I’ve seen some positive talk about TMP recently for one.

Aside from that it’s easy to find people falling in to the “the new stuff sucks. The old stuff is way better” about pretty much anything Trek or not.

Even your list doesn’t fit with the old adage of the evens being good and the odds being crap.

rambaroo,

III is ok but I wouldn’t say it’s bad. At least not as bad as TMP and V. There’s always people being contrarians about movies though. The general consensus is that TMP is super boring.

Of course everyone has their own taste. Maybe some people like how slow TMP is. It’s a very different movie from the Abrams series so I wouldn’t automatically invalidate someone who liked it but not the new ones. I can’t stand Abrams’ hectic/ADHD filming style so I’ve never liked his take on ST. But that doesn’t mean the old ones are all good, the TNG movies are basically all trash except for first contact.

bravesilvernest,

Am I the only one enjoying Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds as they come out then? 🙃

Infynis,
@Infynis@midwest.social avatar

You’re not. Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds are very popular. They’re fantastic shows. The ones people don’t really like currently are Picard and Discovery.

bravesilvernest,

Fair enough! Those are the ones I have heard pretty much nothing about except in jabs about them. Thanks!

pimento64,

Probably because they’re not very popular in the first place: people have to like the shows enough to keep watching them for there to be any content, and most people do not.

PsychedSy, (edited )

Red Letter Media is masochistic at times and I think they cover Picard pretty thoroughly.

thecrotch,

It’s like when they made Picard and discovery they couldn’t decide what kind of show they wanted to make. Then someone was like “hey, what if we made star trek?” and strange new worlds was born

Infynis,
@Infynis@midwest.social avatar

Yeah, that was my main problem with Discovery when it first came out. It had been so long since we’d had Star Trek, and then they made a new Star Trek show. I was so excited. And then they didn’t do Star Trek.

Stamets convinced me to give it another shot though, and I’m on season 4 now, and since Season 3, it really has been Star Trek. I just watched an episode where the ship got captured, and they had to take it back by being clever and competent. And then they fought for the rights of a sentient computer. Really classic Trek scenarios. I like most of the characters now, and while it’s still serialized, it’s more episodic than it was. Season 3 episode 2 got me to really love three characters I previously didn’t really even like.

ThrowawayInTheYear23,

and Prodigy!

agent_flounder,
@agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

Nope. Not at all. I can’t wait for more.

Discovery … I still can’t believe what they did to the Klingons and I have other issues but… goddamnit that show won me over in spite of itself. Will start season 3 in a while. And I liked the first two seasons of Picard I don’t care what anyone says.

I might be alone in saying all that, idk lol

7of9,
@7of9@startrek.website avatar

I enjoyed the first two seasons of Picard more than the third. It takes all sorts, I guess.

skullgiver, (edited )
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • barsoap,

    Discovery had soooo much for Klingon nerds: Hours upon hours of dialogue in Klingon, and (without actually knowing Klingon) with proper pronunciation, tons of warrior honour culture and its existential clash with federation ideals, and people are complaining about hair. Fucking hair.

    Jaccident,

    TNG didn’t redesign the Klingons, that was the The Motion Picture with subsequent small revisions through the TOS films.

    CheeryLBottom,

    I’m completely enjoying both!

    Telodzrum,

    Lower Decks is the best Trek since Ent went off the air, IMO. I didn’t care for Disco, largely. Picard was more action than I was in for at first. I’m really enjoying SNW, though.

    UnspecificGravity,

    Lower Decks is awesome. The only thing I didn’t like about Picard is that romulans and vulkans need to wear nametags if they are both going to wear federation uniforms.

    alansuspect,

    I haven’t watched Lower Decks yet, the SNW cross-over episode was fun but I found the characters from LD a bit annoying. SNW is great though, it’s like classic trek with higher production values.

    I really tried with Discovery but stopped around season 2 or 3 (around the time they took it off Netflix), it seemed to struggle with itself a lot. Maybe I need to give it another try, I like the idea of the jump to the future.

    Picard, it was cosy to be back with the old characters but the writing was pretty poor.

    slackassassin, (edited )

    The LD characters seemed annoying because they were cartoonish, on account of them being cartoons. They played it up to be how people act in the future. But it doesn’t feel out of place in the actual cartoon. Imho.

    DerisionConsulting,

    DISC, Picard, and the cartoons just aren’t my vibe, but I am glad they exist for those that love the shows.

    Eylrid,

    That’s the way to be!

    GTG3000,

    Couldn’t get into the Lower Decks because I am thoroughly tired of adult swim style of humour. But hey, people seem to like it and all power to them.

    Don’t really know what else is going on with Star Trek nowadays. Anything worth checking out?

    hasnt_seen_goonies,

    It may have a lot of the stylings of adult swim, but I think that lower decks is far more focused. Obviously it all comes down to taste, but you should really give it another go and definitely try strange new worlds. Strange new worlds is classic trek done so well.

    GTG3000,

    Well, I watched first few episodes before forming that opinion, I think it’s just the usual “cynicism pushed to grotesque” thing many adult-oriented shows do that puts me off. But it’s been a while and I don’t really remember it well so I suppose another chance wouldn’t hurt.

    And thanks, I’ll look into Strange New Worlds then.

    JWBananas, (edited )
    @JWBananas@startrek.website avatar

    And then when I asked advice from people in Hollywood—I knew a handful of people, not many in those days—and I said to them, “Look, I’ve been offered this, what should I do? I’ve got plays lined up in London, I’m finally beginning to get a reputation in the West End playing leading roles.” And they told me now, this is a six-year contract, don’t worry about it. You cannot revive an iconic show like Star Trek, it cannot happen, you will be lucky to make it halfway through the season before it’s canceled.

    – Sir Patrick Stewart, on his decision to accept the role of Captain Picard

    JWBananas,
    @JWBananas@startrek.website avatar

    Let me see if I can explain it to you: Nerds don’t have a problem with women; they have a problem with change. I’ll give you an example: Nerds are upset at black stormtroopers in the new Star Wars movie. Do they have a problem with stormtroopers being black? No. They have a problem with you changing their definition of a stormtrooper. I’ll be a little clearer: If the first time you introduce oatmeal to a nerd it has maple syrup in it, it better have maple syrup every fucking time, or it’s not oatmeal.

    – Larry Wilmore, on the closed-mindedness of sci-fi fans.

    samus12345,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    I take issue with the idea that being a nerd is the problem. Some people are just assholes, nerdy or not.

    JWBananas,
    @JWBananas@startrek.website avatar

    I tend to think of the term as meaning “obsessive to a fault” (versus simply being passionate about something).

    pomodoro_longbreak,
    @pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Oh my god that is the perfect explanation of the (often unintentionally / incidentally) bigoted opinions I hear around.

    Kolanaki, (edited )
    @Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

    Do I not like the new content because it’s new and weird…? 🤔

    No. I still liked DS9 and Voyager when I had grew up with TNG. I still liked Enterprise (although with some caveats mostly due to specific nerd shit that changed). I love Lower Decks and Prodigy.

    What I can’t get into with Picard and Discovery (haven’t tried SNW yet) is the format. I really just prefer episodic content to serialized stuff. Especially when the good parts come slowly. So many people who do like these shows admit they don’t get good until the 2nd or 3rd season, and I just can’t slog through the first season to get that far.

    frezik, (edited )

    SNW is probably what you want. There are some longer arcs, but for the most part, you can take things episode by episode.

    The streaming era is favoring shows with long arcs, though. Just the opposite of where we were in the 90s, where missing one episode of Babylon 5 meant you might not understand what’s going on, and VCRs were clunky and hard to setup right.

    PsychedSy,

    X-Files when it started vs X-Files when it ended. I feel like the episodic/short story formats focus on the sci fi aspects or specific situations in a way I like more.

    pomodoro_longbreak,
    @pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Later X-Files kind of felt like what Lost would later become. Engaging, yes, but kind of an amorphous mess.

    PsychedSy,

    It did end up a confusing mess.

    Tavarin,
    @Tavarin@lemmy.ca avatar

    admit they don’t get good until the 2nd or 3rd season, and I just can’t slog through the first season to get that far.

    That’s also true of TNG, the first season is rough, and season 2 isn’t great.

    rambaroo,

    Discovery and Picard are just bad shows to me, especially Picard. It annoys me when people try to reduce criticism to just not liking something new. The Abrams movies and Discovery depart from previous iterations in some really important ways to the point that they don’t feel like the same franchise anymore.

    Also really annoys me when people bring up some of the TNG movies to “prove” that old trek did some of the same annoying things, when those movies are also bad and widely criticized.

    I do like SNW though. Better than Enterprise and probably Voyager as well.

    xkforce,

    I remember people hating on voyager calling it “shitty nutrek” and now it is adored like TNG, TOS and DS9 are. Give it a few years and “nutrek” will be old trek and we will have a new set of trek series that “fans” will spit on.

    PsychedSy,

    I was twelve when Voyager started and didn’t really enjoy it. I don’t recall my parents having a bad opinion of it and they watched it regularly. I don’t really remember it getting hate, but with no internet that’s not abnormal.

    krolden,
    @krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

    Well voyager did kinda suck, especially in the early seasons.

    pomodoro_longbreak,
    @pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I can’t imagine what it’s like to love a trek that kind of sucking in the early seasons >_>

    captain_aggravated,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I think from Season 3 to mid-season 5 and then late season 7 of TNG, most of DS9, and a couple seasons of Voyager, this isn’t true. I think people knew at the time we had genuinely good Trek on the air.

    slackassassin,

    False premise, for sure. But the debate about what’s good or not is eternal.

    frezik,

    No, no they didn’t. Run through the alt.startrek Usenet archive throughout the '90s and you’ll find plenty of bitching about every series.

    StillPaisleyCat,
    @StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website avatar

    The OP’s point is that there were old fans gatekeeping and downtalking ‘NuTrek’ pretty much since fan organizations took out full page newspaper ads in the US trying to stop TAS from being aired.

    I was going to Star Trek cons in 1990. No matter how objectively great season 3 of TNG was, many TOS diehards were still campaigning against it.

    Longstanding TOS fans could still be pretty toxic at that point to new TNG fans in person too. The guests at cons were still largely TOS cast. It was hard even to get a TNG t-shirt then.

    Fast forward to 1993 and TNG cosplay was everywhere, the guests and panels were TNG and DS9 was the exciting new thing.

    PlasmaDistortion,

    As a kid I remember hating TNG when it first came out because it was so different from TOS. I still struggle to watch Discovery (too dark) and JJ Abram’s trek (lens flares) but I am sure I will eventually give them another rewatch.

    MaggiWuerze,

    I mean, there’s a lot not to like in Discovery.

    MajorHavoc,

    Yeah.

    During the Klingon scenes, I just want someone to rush down the corridor with silly string and water balloons filled with neon shades of paint.

    I get it, their Klingon society is feudal, and on the brink of even more war. But they could still try letting some natural light in. If nothing else, their plants will live longer.

    Oh gosh, I just got the joke in The Orville about the Klingon-equivalent race being extremely light sensitive. I don’t know how I missed that before.

    MaggiWuerze, (edited )

    I really liked how they displayed the Klingons, went a bit away from the old humans with a bad rash on the forehead trope. Also that they spoke Klingons when no non-Klingons is around.

    But yeah, the lighting was atrocious, but that was a flaw on the whole show. It all waas so unnecessary dark.

    MajorHavoc,

    Yeah!

    The actual additions to Klingon lore, and cultrue, I loved.

    I just wished I could have seen more of it with better lighting.

    (As opposed to the the Kelvin universe, which I wish I could have sen more of with less lens flare. Haha. I’m realizing I might be a lighting snob.)

    rambaroo, (edited )

    Well that also undid the lore that says all the humanoid races have a common ancestor which I thought was one of the few good pieces of ST lore.

    MaggiWuerze,

    Does it? It is just more pronounced, which I like. I thought the common ancestors thing isn’t really canon

    USSBurritoTruck,
    @USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website avatar

    That bit of lore is completely silly. Humans share a common ancestor with bananas if we go back far enough, and “The Chase” proposes to go back even further than that. Still a good episode, though.

    However, nothing in Disco’s Klingon’s undoes that. We saw Klingon precursors when Worf was devolved into one in “Genesis” – another episode that has a Hollywood writer’s understanding of evolution – and he had an exoskeleton, mandibles, and spit acid.

    Stamets,
    @Stamets@lemmy.world avatar

    And there’s plenty to like as well. But once again, thanks for looking at this posts description about positivity and flagrantly ignore it to give throwaway negative comments. You did the same thing over on another post earlier of someone saying they like Discovery. I’m so tired of this hatefilled focus on Discovery. So many people here are able to share their opinions about not liking Discovery respectfully and without randomly throwing it in everyones faces. Why do people like you have to always double down and drill in that hatred everytime it’s even mentioned? You’re just… exhausting.

    Tolookah,

    I like Discovery. I’m a little behind on it I think (maybe?) But it’s entertaining. Later seasons, you can tell that the writers got some inspiration from DS9 and Voyager, because that’s how it feels.

    Lower Decks is grand, and doesn’t feel like it’s Trek, but it is, and it’s definitely new.

    MaggiWuerze,

    My main issue was that they constantly broke protocol in a way no captain would have tolerated. They didn’t seem like professionals at all.

    In other shows people were demoted from a fraction of what happened on the discovery. And Michael actually gets rewarded for this behavior.

    I don’t know if that gets better after they join the new federation, I never made it this far

    jackoneill,

    My main issue with Discovery was that it never felt like Star Trek. I always called it BBC’s Trek through the Stars because to me it felt like a BBC drama set in a vaguely Trek like universe. It was a good show, just didn’t FEEL like Trek. Strange New Worlds though? Feels just like the Trek I miss

    Kucifus,

    BBC is a good comparison, similar to Dr Who and Sherlock vibe. People who enjoy those I imagine would like the Kurtzman trek shows.

    MaggiWuerze,

    It was very drama heavy. I feel like they focused a bit too much on the meta plot.

    aaaa,

    Michelle Yeoh made up for all my complaints. I could never get enough of her.

    MaggiWuerze,

    Sorry, I actually didn’t even see the description. But I don’t think I overstate my dislike of the show, it’s just a part of the topic that there will be people not liking it.

    You are obviously a huge fan of the show, which is fine, but that doesn’t mean I have to be.

    Draghetta, (edited )

    I mean you’re not wrong, but discovery is quite objectively garbage. It lacks good writing, good characters and anything that makes it a Star Trek other than using the IP. No philosophy, no exploration, no character arcs. Jason Isaacs is pretty much the only redeeming quality.

    Unlike tng, I don’t expect discovery to be a fan loved classic any time in the next century.

    Edit: changed “STD” to “discovery” as apparently we’re in middle school

    USSBurritoTruck,
    @USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website avatar

    Edit: changed “STD” to “discovery” as apparently we’re in middle school

    Buddy, considering how absolutely childish the moniker “STD” has always been, you’ve got no ground to whine here.

    Secondly, at least in middle school, children are taught the meaning of the word, “objectively.”

    Draghetta,

    May be that way for a native English speaker I guess. I have never used it or seen it used as a moniker.

    USSBurritoTruck,
    @USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website avatar

    Interesting theory. If you’d never previously seen “Discovery” called STD, what made you choose it?

    Kucifus,

    Maybe the fact that the three words in the title are Star Trek Discovery? It’s not a ridiculous notion.

    USSBurritoTruck,
    @USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website avatar

    There is no other Trek that follows that name convention. We don’t call “Voyager” STV or “Enterprise” STE. For me to believe that someone had a) never seen someone use STD applied to Disco pejoratively and, b) decided to use that abbreviation when DIS, DSC, and Disco are all far more common, I would have to be convinced that this is their first week discussing Star Trek on the internet.

    flicker,

    This was uncalled for, and a quick look through your comment history indicates that you're either a person who thrives on taking an opposing viewpoint for the sake of being an oppositional pain, or a troll. I'm going to go with the latter.

    Dissonant discourse has value but you're intentionally inflammatory so from me, to you, kindly fuck right off. Try and learn something from this. I will engage you no further.

    Kucifus,

    Guy writes respectful and reasonable personal opinion on discussion board - downvoted. Guy swears at him and tells him he’s a troll, upvoted.

    We really are Reddit 2.0.

    Corgana,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    lmao “reasonable personal opinion” go back to Reddit with that nonsense.

    Draghetta,

    Or maybe I just have different opinions from you on multiple things and you just told a regular guy like you to fuck off because of that. But ok, feel free to disengage.

    SkyeStarfall, (edited )

    You wrote “objectively garbage”, though. An opinion by definition is not objective, so I don’t really know what you’re trying to get at here.

    At the very least you could phrase it in a constructive manner, and clearly delineate what is actually your personal opinion.

    Draghetta,

    I don’t need to be constructive because I’m not talking to the show writers or anybody who is responsible for it. I’m in a community of fans, I thought we could just speak our minds about stuff here and say it sucks when it sucks.

    Yes I wrote “objectively” because i didn’t just dislike the show out of personal taste, but because the writing is atrocious (ask anybody who knows anything about writing, it’s trite and shallow) and the Star Trek element just is not there. Call the first one subjective, but you can’t argue with the latter.

    There are plenty of things about the show I dislike subjectively, and if you want I can write an essay on it - but that was not the point of my comment. The show has traits that are arguably bad regardless of taste. You may personally like to hear the ramblings of a drunk junkie and find plenty of amusement in doing so, and if that is the case then more power to you. But it doesn’t make it good material.

    Stamets, (edited )
    @Stamets@lemmy.world avatar
    1. It’s DSC. Not STD. Calling it STD has never made sense and is just a flagrant insult to the show. No other shows acronym starts with ST. Stop being so disrespectful. You can share your opinion without mocking stuff, especially given the description.
    2. No it is not objectively garbage, that is your opinion.
    3. “Please be chill and positive.” “No.”
    Draghetta,

    Sorry for having come off that way, I’m just a regular guy that doesn’t really like the show for the reasons I said.

    STD is Star Trek discovery and I never meant anything with it, didn’t know it was insulting. Don’t know how it “doesn’t make sense”, it’s literally the acronym of the series.

    But eh.

    wizardbeard, (edited )
    @wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    I have a hard time believing you’re not being willfully obtuse here. Does it really need to be spelled out to you that STD already has a meaning? Sexually Transmitted Disease.


    No one acronyms Star Trek: Deep Space Nine to STDS9, Star Trek: The Next Generation to STTNG, Star Wars: The Force Awakens to SWTFA, Star Wars: A New Hope to SWANH, or Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 to CODMW2. You drop the prefix: DS9, TNG, TFA, ANH, MW2.

    Alternatively, no one shortens the above to STD, STN, SWA, SWH, CDM.

    In verbal conversation, calling it Disco saves you a syllable compared to STD. In text, DSC is the same amount of characters.


    There’s no point trying to defend your choice here. You call it STD because you don’t like it and calling it STD made you chuckle. I get it, it made me chuckle the first time. I really don’t care whether you like it or what you choose to call it. I watched most of season 1 and it just didn’t click for me.

    I just can’t imagine being the kind of person that would try to say they don’t understand why calling it STD could be taken badly. Wow. Reminds me of school days, the kids with the sheer audacity to tell the teacher they didn’t bring a cellphone into a test while their pants are blasting out a compressed to hell 30 second loop of a top 10 song as a ringtone.

    Draghetta,

    I’ll be honest here, the whole std thing feels rather immature. Yeah of course I thought of the other meaning for the acronym, didn’t think people would be so childish as to consider that. Let’s be real, every acronym in the world is probably also an acronym for something nasty - but you can’t take that burden on yourself every time you type. If you have a hard time believing i was honest then don’t believe it, but the fact that I’m being accused of something so trivial speaks more of the accuser than it does of me.

    I didn’t mean to make a pun at stds, it’s baffling that people would interpret it that way. That show is crappy enough to insult itself, why would anyone bother calling it names. It doesn’t need any help being ridicule.

    As for your “other acronyms” point: other series are made of multiple words. TOS, TNG, DS9, they’re all acronyms. Discovery is only one word, how are you supposed to call it? D? DSC is not an acronym, if I were to randomly select letters from the name just to save space I’d just call it by its full name.

    I realised STD could mean both and decided to go through with it anyway because I thought we were talking between adults but clearly you made up your mind about me long before giving a damn about who I was.

    kittyrunningnoise,

    I agree with you. The other people in this thread are quick to judge and could stand to learn from some of the wisdom in the shows about which they have such strong feelings.

    Draghetta,

    👏👏👏👏👏

    Corgana,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    My pet peeve is when people call (Disco and onward) “NuTrek” because that term was created to mock the “NuMetal” Kelvinverse films for their shallowness.

    Now it’s mostly used by people who complain about “wokeness” or “forced” diversity or what have you.

    Ensign_Crab,

    He’s the one who likes all our pretty songs.

    captain_aggravated,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Send the folks complaining about wokeness in “NuTrek” over to my house and we’ll watch the episode of TOS where the aliens hated each other because “they’re black on the right side.”

    Doug,

    Will you let that be your final battleground?

    skullgiver, (edited )
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Corgana,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    It also ruined the reveal about Adira’s nonbinary identity for me. I saw she

    Look, I’m sorry that representation “ruined” a low-stakes interaction about preferred pronouns for you, but it would mean a lot if you could try a little harder.

    Kyle, (edited )

    So nutrek is an umbrella term for Discovery, Lower decks, SNW and Prodigy right? It’s it common for people to hate all 4 with a passion? They’re all sooooo different. I can get hating one, because they are all basically different genres.

    I think people are afraid if they support one that they hate, then we’ll get more of the same. So have a knee jerk reaction to be toxic when their hated show is discussed. The irony being that historically star trek is a show that seeks to show an example of interpersonal harmony. These people do want an outlet to discuss their grievances about the shows but mostly see that outlet when someone mentions the show because they love it.

    If someone hates all 4, they must be pretty deep into some extreme ideology that somehow doesn’t conform with all of Star Trek.

    Maybe startrek.website needs a neutral zone that only allows constructive criticism but still provides an outlet for these feelings. 😅

    Edit- I forgot Picard existed, whoops!

    Corgana,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    NuTrek was coined to refer to the Kelvinverse films (in a pejorative way) for being edgy and shallow like “NuMetal”, but the “anti woke” crowd ruined it just like everything else.

    5too,

    You know, your question sparked a little realization for me - I like some of the newer series quite a bit more than some others; but I love that we’re getting such a wide variety of directions and perspectives on the themes behind Star Trek!

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