Parents: We must ban all the books we disagree with!
Kids: That’s fine, no one reads physical books anymore anyways. Just don’t touch the library internet filter - we are getting tired of finding ways around the block list.
This is referring to a few books that were banned from school libraries a while ago (not sure what they were doing there in the first place).
Anyway, one of the books that were banned showed males sucking each other off. That’s hardly something you would be eager to show a kid unless you are a groomer. A common theme between these books in general was that they were pornographic. The fact that there was, and still is an outrage from the LGBT community till this day because of the bans is telling.
Also, do make note of the people here comparing the bans to Nazi Germany. Yeah, not showing kids gay porn is like being a Nazi, apparently. Disgusting.
Ok so I looked it up and ended up skimming through the entire book - I wasn’t planning to, but I got carried away because it’s really good! Anyway, I’m not sure if I found what you were talking about. I thought maybe it was the scene on page 168, but that wasn’t two males (one was cis female and the other was non binary and AFAB), and it wasn’t both sucking each other off, it was one character wearing a strap-on over clothes and the other giving a blow job. Was there a different scene that I glossed over somewhere?
A 168 page book with depictions of blow jobs? Was this even in any schools or was it just banned to cause a fuss?
Edit: mods removed the comment? Why? I don’t think the guy was wrong to be concerned about sexual content in books for children and I would have liked my question answered.
Edit: mods removed the comment? Why? I don’t think the guy was wrong to be concerned about sexual content in books for children and I would have liked my question answered.
It’s probably the mods on your instance (lemmy.ca) that removed the comment. I can still see it.
Nope, but that guy doesn’t get outraged with the idea of kids being exposed to sex acts. They just get outraged specifically by the thought of them being exposed to gay sex acts.
They’re not upset because it shows sex they’re upset because it shows and talks about gay people and trans people. This person has a history of homophobic and transphobic behavior (you can check their post and comment history and you’ll find plenty of these bigoted talking points).
My high school English teacher did this, although we didn’t know it at the time. It wasn’t until I was doing an essay on banned books in college that I realized all of the ones we read in his class were banned. Really made me appreciate him more.
I hate kneejerk bullshit, so this teacher is going to teach some real shit books because the author included enough hate speech and perversion that it’s clearly not suitable for school age kids?
You think the media teacher has the same attitude ‘they said I couldn’t show you this in class but screw them! get ready for hard core porn…’
There have been good books banned but also we need to be reasonable and live in reality, not all books are suitable for children. The conversation should be about criteria for banning books in school or the process, etc. it’s incredibly dumb just saying ‘i don’t care if it’s three hundred pages of glorified rape and racism if you try to stop me teaching it to children you’re the baddie’
And yes I know ‘but we actually mean something different to the meme we’re upvoting…’ it’s ok upvote this post because I do too, right, that’s how it works?
It’s so strange that you clearly understand the intent of the comic, but are still getting wound up by something you admit the comic isn’t saying at all.
I know what it’s trying to say but it’s not saying that - this is defund the police all over again, why is it so hard to say fund better alternatives rather than relying on police in situations they’re not suitable…
Like this is a very simple logic on the comic, banned book list becomes reading list - a commonly held foolish notion it seems. This isn’t what anyone wants to happen, everyone here minus a few wingnuts is saying that it should be a process based on merit - one person even said it should be tasked to people with masters degrees in determining suitability of literature for children.
What’s the next one ‘kick puppies’ where we say everyone should kick puppies,’ by which we mean of course stroke them gently and cuddle with them.
I don’t understand why supporting sensible thungs that might actually convince people is anathema to the left. You don’t need to just say the dumbest thing and hope people assume you mean something totally different and sensible.
Defund the police is about police having the resources and immunity to escalate situations to mortal danger. Have you never considered why places like northern Ireland don’t have rampant murders by the police? The place was bombing itself not 30 years ago. There is more bottled violence there than the US. General police there don’t carry firearms. Not because they don’t have money, or it’s not dangerous, but because not every situation calls for someone armed to the teeth.
If police couldn’t respond to every call here, others would be called in. Neighbor’s autistic child is causing a scene? Get a social worker there. If you need someone with a gun, then you call that in. But if you start with someone trained to control a situation with deadly force and introduce someone mentally incapable of understanding or complying, you’re gonna have dead kids. Which we do. Without the need for that.
But I guess you’re ok with shooting the mentally infirm because they’re a burden and should be cleansed. The Nazis thought that was too.
Yes as I was trying to say when you understand the reality beyond the slogan it’s a very sensible thing, which is why presenting it in a way 99% of the population disagree with is so weird
You can look at banned book lists. There are plenty of banned books which are banned simply because there are queer themes. Some because they talk about race in a frank way. The top 10 most challenged books of 2022 include books by John Green and Toni Morrison. A Handmaid’s Tale also often pops up on banned books lists because we can’t have girls learning about what fascists have planned for them.
By the way, your local public library should have all of these books, but if they don’t, you can either request the library get them or get them through inter-library loan.
Yeah, as a parent, I’d be all for my library having a display of banned books. If we took the comic literally, I can’t support teachers choosing books because of an unrelated list like that. However I’m all for anything that will get kids to read and think on their own.
-Gender Queer would be banned from my old schools if the blowjob depicted on pg 167 was between a straight couple too, even despite the fact that it’s “strap on play” not “an actual blowjob.” It’s also rated 14+, so I could see why it wouldn’t be allowed in elementary and middle school libraries.
-All Boys Aren’t Blue I couldn’t pirate, so I can’t say beyond what I read about the book, which I don’t like to make opinions based on. So far all I have is an explitive count that would have this one banned in my old schools too.
-The Bluest Eye, seems well written, but “He wanted to fuck her—tenderly. But the tenderness would not hold. The tight- ness of her vagina was more than he could bear. His soul seemed to slip down to his guts and fly out into her, and the gigantic thrust he made into her then provoked the only sound she made—a hollow suck of air in the back of her throat. Like the rapid loss of air from a circus balloon. Following the disintegration—the falling away—of sex- ual desire, he was conscious of her wet, soapy hands on his wrists, the fingers clenching, but whether her grip was from a hopeless but stubborn struggle to be free, or from some other emotion, he could not tell. Removing himself from her was so painful to him he cut it short and snatched his genitals out of the dry harbor of her vagina. She appeared to have fainted. Cholly stood up and could see only her grayish panties, so sad and limp around her ankles. Again the hatred mixed with tenderness. The hatred would not let him pick her up, the tenderness forced him to cover her. So when the child regained consciousness, she was lying on the kitchen floor under a heavy quilt, trying to connect the pain between her legs with the face of her mother looming over her.” would have this banned in my old schools too.
-Flamer I have queued up for download right now, 2697th in line but it should go quick.
-Looking for Alaska, also in queue.
-Perks of Being a Wallflower I saw the movie and it definitely wouldn’t have been shown in my schools until at least highschool. Movie was alright though, I may read the book.
-Lawn Boy: "Goddamn-fucking-cunt-fuck-shit-ass-fucker!” I yelled. Yup, that’ll do it.
-The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, couldn’t pirate.
-out of darkness, couldn’t pirate.
-A Court of Mist and Fury: “I’ve had a long, long time to think about how and where | want you,” Rhys said onto the skin of my neck, his fingers Sliding under the band of my pants, but stopping just beneath. Their home for the evening. “I have no intention of doing it all in one night. Or in a room where | can’t even fuck you against the wall.”
-Crank, I can see why the rape scene would have it banned especially in elementary and middle schools, but high schools probably need this one lol.
-Me, Earl, and the Dying Girl, couldn’t pirate.
-This book is gay: The author claims we’re taught about straight sex at age 10, and this isn’t exactly untrue, it just was a bit different than:
Handies: Perhaps the most important skill you will master as a gay or bi man is the timeless classic, the hand job. The good news is, you can practise on yourself. The bad news is, each guy has become very used to his own way of getting himself off. Learning how to find a partner’s personal style can take ages, but it can be very rewarding when you do.
Something they don’t teach you in school is that, in order to be able to cum at all, you or your partner may need to finish off with a handie. A lot of people find it hard to cum through other types of sex. This is fine, and certainly not something you have to apologise for.
A GOOD HANDIE is all about the wrist action. Rub the head of his cock back and forth with your hand. Try different speeds and pressures until he responds positively.
A BAD HANDIE is grasping a todger and shaking it like a ketchup bottle.
Finally, my misunderstanding about rubbing two peens together wasn’t far off the mark – rubbing them together in one hand feels awesome – MEGACOMBOHANDIE (trademark pending).
TIP: If your partner is circumcised (‘cut’) you will want to try a drop of lube – remember he hasn’t got as much skin to move around as uncut guys.
Blowies: Oral sex is popping another dude’s peen in your mouth or, indeed, popping yours in his. There is only one hard and fast rule when it comes to blowies – WATCH THE TEETH. Lips and tongue, yes; teeth, NO"
I can see why that would be banned from school libraries as well. It is to say the least “different” than said sex education classes at 10yo. I’m fairly certain that if any teacher said “Oral sex is when the women pops the man’s peen in his mouth, or indeed, popping her puss in his. There is only one rule ladies, no teeth. (to straightify it)” to a group of 10yos they’d be fired on the spot.
Now, we can have the conversation on if “America’s puritanical views on sex and profanity need to change,” and I probably agree depending on what you mean (some people use that stance in an attempt to lower the age of consent so you have to be careful before agreeing), but as it stands now I’m not surprised any of the books I was able to access are not allowed in school libraries (which is what “banned” in this context means, because they are not banned for sale or ownership anywhere in America thanks to the first amendment, you are not banned from providing them to your children, and they’re available in most if not all public libraries that are not school libraries), and as they’d be banned if they were all straight sex scenes or straight people saying “cunt” I’m hesitant to claim homophobia specifically, rather I think it’s the same run of the mill puritanical views that got Tipper Gore all hot and bothered over Jello Biafra and H. R. Giger.
I wish I could have got access to the entire list, and with a bit of work I probably could, and I think having a centralized place for kids to easily pirate (read: get free access) to these banned books on their own would be a great thing, but I’m not surprised they’re banned especially if the rest of the books follow the theme of “sexually explicit regardless of sexuality and contains words that get you sent to the office for repeating.”
It feels like most of your position comes from a place of misunderstanding just what goes into a lesson plan about literature; possibly even a deliberate misunderstanding. Schools aren’t giving children books with smut and senseless violence. These materials are constantly being reconsidered and reevaluated. Vonnegut was something taught when I was in school, and removed right after I graduated.
This comic is pointing at the fact that nearly every book on these lists isn’t there because the content is actually a problem. The lists just have books that some religious group dislikes regardless of whether or not they’re being used.
Besides, somehow the christian Bible is somehow still “approved” while having more rape and violence and men kissing men than any book I ever had to read for school.
You’re missing a key part to the story, Saul (no, not that Saul/Paul) was buying selling a human woman with those foreskins.
And who was the person who wanted traded these foreskins in exchange for the human woman? David, as in, David and Goliath.
Edit: swapped the vendor/purchaser. I left the religion about 20 years ago, so I should probably fact-check myself before posting.
Kinda got it backwards-King Saul required David to do it for his daughter’s hand in marriage. David and his squad killed 200 of Saul’s (Israel’s) sworn enemies. That was the source of the payment.
Thanks for the correction. I left the religion about 20 years ago, so I should probably fact-check myself before posting about it. Memories are not perfect.
Oh isn’t there also a part when the israelites circumsize the whole enemy army after defeat or something like that? I also like the part about Job where god literally bets with the devil how Job will keep his faith and then proceeds to kill his family and destroy his livelihood, bringing him to poverty and edge of death. And because he keeps believing he then gives him a new family and stuff but how fucked up is that for a "benevolent’ god?
My favorite is the time god smites a dude because he was an asshole.
But then, like, his brother needed to get the wife preggo* and didn’t so he could inherite all of his dad’s shit, so he kept up with some awesome pull out game**… so god smites him, too.
So she goes off without a son cuz the daddy ain’t doing his thing either… until he goes to war… then she becomes a camp follower (aka prostitute.) seduces him, gets preggo, takes his banner as proof; or something… and the. Comes back with a son…
*levitate marriage. Widows without children where basically not taken care of… so, the idea is the brother gives his son an heir, the widow can take care of the son’s inheritance, blah blah blah)
**that never works irl. It’s almost like god just wanted to smite another asshole…helped him out a little.
But then, like, his brother needed to get the wife preggo* and didn’t so he could inherite all of his dad’s shit, so he kept up with some awesome pull out game**… so god smites him, too.
And that’s why you’ll go to hell if you touch yourself down there, Billy.
Like seriously. Because a guy one time pulled out because he was an asshole and wanted the inheritance that would otherwise go to his “nephew”… which would have (and did) cause his brother’s widow go into destitution, so god smote him.
Also… side note… that’s the kind of world they view as ideal.
I’ll take my chances with the sky fairy rather than the courts. One has a track record of being wrong a lot and causing grievous financial harm, and the other is imaginary.
I can top that with scripture. In 2 Kings 2:23-25 Elisha goes to Bethel and a bunch of children make fun of him for being bald. So Elisha prays to God to handle it and God sends two bears out of the woods to maul all 42 of the children to death.
I think the comic is the one that is pushing sillyness about lesson planning, it’s saying not to do to that and instead just assume the banned books have value simply because they’re banned.
Why don’t we just agree that there are plenty of books on the list that genuinely don’t belong in schools and that if we have a problem with the legislatory system we should propose sensible ways of screening books rather than pretending every banned book is Ray Bradbury and acting like every time a book isn’t passed for inclusion in the curriculum it’s literally nazi 1984.
Or, you know, we could keep the issue out of the legislature entirely and put it back in the hands of the people with MASTERS DEGREES IN LESSON PLANNING AND EVALUATING THE AGE APPROPRIATENESS OF BOOKS FOR MINORS (i.e., teachers and librarians). Because letting the legislature decide what anyone can and can’t read is LITERALLY NAZI 1984.
Books are being banned with zero consideration for their worth, or even if they’re being used in a classroom. These books are on those lists purely for existing.
Or maybe you believe that the Nazis did nothing wrong. You’re entitled to that. But I draw the line at books being banned because they talk about them. A wrong thing can be just a useful teaching tool as a right thing. Counter examples are just as useful as affirming examples.
I think you’re confused what is happening, do you think when the Nazis banned books they still sold them in shops and carried them in public libraries? Do you think banning books was the sole extent of the bad things they did? I don’t know why you’d assume I’d think they did nothing wrong when I’m simply arguing that there’s a very clear reality not all books are suitable for children or a school environment.
Do you not think that there should be rules for schools? You think that the process by which books are banned is wrong but i bet if you suggested a system it’d involve public accountability and etc which would lead to you coming up with something very similar to the actual system in place.
What you mean is you think the people democratically elected to control school boards and educational departments are the wrong people for the job, and of course in many cases I very much agree.
That doesn’t mean I think every ‘banned book’ should be taught to children as a matter of principle.
They’re also evidence of why the book banning doesn’t really work as well today as conservatives would like it to.
Book banning was an effective way of controlling what your young population was exposed to before the internet and social media. It worked best when the young weren’t even aware of the information they were being denied.
But social media is making sure they’re all very much aware of what has been hidden from them. They know what’s going on. You will find teenagers in particular are kind of resistant to being told no by an authority, so they’re going to do something about it.
Now, don’t feel too excited about this, because there’s a threat here. Every single time you see a conservative talking about more stringent age verification for things on the internet, part of what they’re actually trying to do is create an avenue to control the information kids are exposed to. They are pretty open about how LGBT issues, particularly the T ones, can be labeled as “sexual” and “inappropriate”. With very simple changes to the regulation, they can suppress children’s access to anything they like as long as they make a half-assed argument that it’s “inappropriate”.
I find it interesting that even then they slip up. Not Christian but ex Muslim, and even if I had stuck to learning only what Iranians mullahs and the nationalized education system wanted me to learn, I would still think Wtf is this BS?! And just that did happen.
Religious nut jobs and authoritarians have their sense of morality so twisted they see some of the fucked up parts of their beliefs as normal for others as well.
Well, if they were capable of empathy they probably wouldn't be in that position.
Then I think they weren’t very good scholars. I find Christian scholars like the Jesuits very talented in twisting the language and ideas until it fits their ideology.
Besides, I do think interpretation is required to read such books without taking silly interpretation shortcuts, but I’d rather have it from a secular religion history researcher.
Edit: I was thinking about this scholastic system of education from the Middle Ages that made them so good at this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation
If people really distanced themselves from religion like they say, then the Bible would be one of the greatest fucking fiction books literature ever produced.
It’s legal. An annotated version, with neither the swastika nor a picture of the greasy Nazi fuck, was published a few years back and tens of thousands were sold, primarily to German libraries and schools. It’s a good study on how shitheads think.
I often buy books written by shitheads when I end up studying fascism or other radical right wing movements. Heck, even more mainstream conservative movements with radical imagery or frequent dogwhistles. Reading books by shitty people on shitty topics is very important on understanding how the movements work and think.
Reading about fascism from antifascists is good and all, but understanding fascist movements when they are most active requires reading fascist works. Heck, even with books like Mien Kampf, a book with a ton of analysis done by antifascists could still be a potentially useful read for antifascists.
That’s smart. I can’t count how many times I’ve learned about new dogwhistles or the details of various ideologies and realized an acquaintance was a fascist and/or racist sack of shit, although I’ve never been surprised. This would help me realize in real-time, so I can call them out on their shit.
I do feel like I’d need a book cover with something like “I’m reading -book title- to understand scumbags. I do not support its ideology”.
The copyright was held by the state of Bavaria as the official heir of Hitler and they simply said “Nope, no new printings.”
As the copyright ran out in 2015 everyone can copy and print it again. Though most don’t care, even the most right wing nutcracks realize that the book is rather badly written.
One more thing: While “Mein Kampf” is only available at rather high prices the books of Vladimir Putin are available for FREE on Amazon as EBooks and the printed version is €1. He wrote even years ago straight forward that he is willing to start the third world war to make Russia Great again and even laid out the list of nations he wants to subjugate: Ukraine was the first step, but in his ideology he also claims Alaska, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Finland and many many more nations. Overall he mentioned he would spare Germany, France and Italy but only because they have nukes and the US as their ally.
Add comment