I remember doing that for reddit back in the day. I downloaded a bunch of apps, then picked the one I liked best. Good to see devs doing the same for Lemmy!
I thought this until I actually tried windows, it just doesn’t work right ever and feels so weird and old. I wouldn’t use macos, but it’s fine, it feels competently made and for the most part makes sense.
Yes, Windows feels old but at least is usable (10 was more usable that 11 in my opinion). MacOS feels very janky to me and you have to jump to various hoops to do basic things
There are plenty of developers who use macs for work, me included. I mainly go with Mac for the build quality/battery life/performance though and also because my work pays for it so I don’t need to worry about the exorbitant price. I would agree that MacOS is pretty janky at times and it requires a few third party apps to be reasonable usable.
But I’m not really sure what you mean by useful bits? I don’t feel like I’m really restricted in MacOS. If there isn’t a UI element for something, you can probably adjust it in a terminal.
Generally, yes. I like MacOS more than windows because it’s at least *nix.
But to be honest I have no strong opinions on OS when it comes to work. I’ve used windows*/Linux/MacOS and none have stood out as far superior to get my work done faster or more efficiently.
I use MacOS with my Mac because that’s what’s installed out of the box.
The main things that seem to hold me back from working efficiently are programs that are required by the company to maintain their ISO accreditation like Microsoft “intune” or what ever it’s called.
It is true though, developers use macs because they give you a useful unixy environment but Apple do try to keep that hidden because the people they actually market the devices to are the casual users. I find myself constantly fighting with macOS because it has decided that things must be done The Apple Way and I have to go to the forums to find out where they’re hiding the features. Obviously I’m not going to use Windows for a dev environment (I’m not a masochist), but it’s a shame that most companies can’t be bothered supporting a Linux desktop environment.
I work in IT and i’d wager that 95+% of MacOS users don’t know how to find their Library folder or how to view other hidden directories. Keychain Access is also an unnecessarily convoluted system to use as a desktop password manager. The System Settings layout is also not intuitive (not that System Preferences was much better). And although MacOS is a *nix system, there have been plenty of times where I’ve had to Google certain commands to fix things that are different than on Linux.
Windows for Dev is very common actually. And not just for .Net based stuff. Many devs that I know work on Windows. I used all three OS for Dev and I don’t know why Windows is always listed as a nightmare. Maybe fifteen years ago but not now.
It’s not true in the slightest. Terminal is an app that comes on every Mac and is shown in the Launchpad and Applications folders. It’s not hidden at all.
It’s not finding the terminal, it’s finding that you need to install xcode separately to configure or run things, or install brew for a proper package manager, or install third party tools to do basic actions like move windows around with keyboard shortcuts. It’s the “our way or the highway” attitude which drives a lot of how they design their software.
This is just a clever safety feature so that those that don’t need it don’t accidentally mess around with things, if they’re curious they can look up what it does.
No one who would use the terminal would need to find the terminal. It automatically prompts you to install Xcode whenever you try to install a package that requires it through terminal. A “proper” package manager is a nonsense distinction and it’s literally one terminal command similar to any Linux distro that doesn’t include it. The same applies to window management. That all depends on the distro you pick and whether it does what you want out of the box. You’re either being disingenuous or you’re ignorant to how variable Linux actually is.
I don’t mean this in an accusatory way, but did you create your account just to talk up macs? I know some people really love them, but plenty of people have serious issues with Apple’s entire philosophy. The “our way or the highway” idea is great if you want to do everything their way but when that way doesn’t work for what you want to do then that’s what rubs people the wrong way.
You can’t always just not use it, a lot of people get given macs as work machines. And having had macos updates break software compatibility multiple times I would not say “a very stable system”!
I think the recent line of MacBook Pros (M1 and onward) clearly have a focus on the professional segment - stopping the focus on very thin computers, touch bars instead of function keys and USB C ports only.
There’s definitely a disconnect between hardware and software. I quite like the hardware and like you say it’s definitely appropriate for the serious user. The OS that updates, changes my settings, and shouts about new emoji reaction features? Not so much!
I personally love those features as a developer, I don’t need every type of port pretty much just one would be enough in a perfect world we would use wireless to interface all peripherals and media items like cameras
Nowadays they’re so many options, GNOME and Plasma are nice, but heavy, same for DDE(Deepin) and others fancy DEs I know why it’s heavy, but xfce and lxqt looks better on my PC, xfce you can make looks beauty and fast too
For the WM guys: I’ll try some day, for now only DEs :3
not really, compare installing something like Spotify on Ubuntu vs something Arch Based, something that allows you to access AUR packages with a few simple clicks.
I can’t imagine that there is any overlap between Linux users and Spotify users, considering what a shitty piece of software Spotify is. I think you must be the only one.
many people use linux because they dont like windows and still use proprietary software like spotify, discord and steam (mostly steam, just because of how good it is)
Both made possible by librespot. Not only do some Linux users use Spotify, some great open-source devs have worked to make clients for it. I honestly prefer Spotify-qt to the official one.
the DE is more important. yes, arch has more options than ububtu, but as long as the new person chooses anything that allows using flatpaks (like mint and anything that isnt from canonical), theyll have an easier and better experience since they would already get the DE they want preinstalled and flatpak would help with any proprietary software they want that isnt on the main distro’s repos
Yeah, but none of the system tools and applications follow Unix-like paradigms, so it’s really only Unix-like in name. Sure you can launch a bash or zsh shell, but there aren’t a lot of useful things you can do with that without installing a bunch of third party tools like brew, so the experience isn’t all that different from having to install Cygwin or WSL in Windows.
I mean that you can’t really do much with those userland tools to effectively manage and configure your system. All configuration is abstracted away in a forest of xml files (i.e. /Library/Preferences) that’s as opaque and undocumented as the Windows registry and which you’re not supposed to touch other than with the approved GUI tools.
MacOS applications never follow Unix principles either regarding file placement.
So yeah while MacOS technically still is “Unix”, it really is a giant monolithic blob of shite built on top of the skeleton of what once was a decent Unix.
Well, you haven’t been very specific with your language.
All configuration is abstracted away in a forest of xml files (i.e. /Library/Preferences) that’s as opaque and undocumented as the Windows registry and which you’re not supposed to touch other than with the approved GUI tools.
It’s been some time since I touched MacOS, but there is a CLI tool for editing those preferences. Not unlike gconf. Actually gconf is apparently inspired by that and the Windows registry you so conveniently mentioned.
Not that I’m a fan, quite the opposite.
MacOS applications never follow Unix principles either regarding file placement.
“Unix principles” is the same as “Unix philosophy”, while you apparently mean Linux FHS. Yes, it’s understandably ignored. Yes, maybe it shouldn’t be.
So yeah while MacOS technically still is “Unix”, it really is a giant monolithic blob of shite built on top of the skeleton of what once was a decent Unix.
Well, see, comparing FreeBSD to Linux with its development path, for example, you might feel as if Linux was slowly moving in that direction as well. Linux users usually laugh at that sentiment and say that it’s evolution. So - MacOS too has what its developers considered evolution from what Linux/FreeBSD/… have.
Ah, also X11 is not that integral and traditional for Unix, if you imply that as well. Sun had its SunView in the olden days. There were other windowing systems.
It would appear then that no MacOS before 14.0 Sonoma is a certified Unix. Which is obviously false. Which means that your implication that this page lists everything certified is wrong.
I said “releases”, because these were specific versions a few years ago. Perhaps nothing relevant today was certified, still what I remember is not that different from the mundane Red Hat of the same year.
Which is all useless talk cause when we say Unix as something important, we mean “genetic Unix”, as in something of being derived from the same code base, culture, philosophy, etc, not “legal Unix” as a trademark, because that’s not the only cool-looking word one can imagine to name an OS.
So obviously BSDs are real Unix then, Linux is something weird and MacOS is bullshit.
The “what you go for it’s entirely your choice” mantra when it comes to DE is total BS. What happens is that you’ll find out while you can use any DE in fact GNOME will provide a better experience because most applications on Linux are design / depend on its components. Using KDE/XFCE is fun until you run into some GTK/libadwaita application and small issues start to pop here and there, windows that don’t pick on your theme or you just created a frankenstein of a system composed by KDE + a bunch of GTK components;
Installed it on a thin client instead of win10 iot for the same reason, basic functionality all there, being used as a media streaming browser machine, no regrets.
Had previous experience with fedora and others many years prior, definitely can tell how far it all progressed since
I installed Mint for the sake of trying it and I quite liked Cinnamon, but after that I did some distro and desktop hopping, I will not go back until it has proper Wayland support.
I’ve been using Linux in different capacities since the late 90s. I use Mint with Cinnamon because it’s stable, does all I need and I don’t need to fuss with it. You’re more than fine.
PopOS is great! I have used a few other (but never strayed far from APT), and I also did some light reading when doing my final decision . PopOS was the best fit for and easy-to-use OS without Snaps. Linux is great and all with how much control you have, but I want as little maintenance as possible for my daily driver.
Yeah that’s all I need - I’m super into everyone else hyper customizing what they use, I love seeing everything that can be done, but I just need something that works and pop_os is it, and as I’ve said before, my games run better on pip_os than they ever did on win 10/11
I agree - was switching to Fedora about month and a half ago, and only learned about KDE vs Gnome like a week ago, when I was reinstaling to Nobara to fix some NVIDIA issues.
I did hear terms like KDE or Gnome thrown around, but never really realized that it’s actually and important choice. And once you add X11 vs Wayland to the mix, it’s suddenly so confusing I just subconsciously choose to ignore that choice and went with whatever the OS installed for me. I though that DE chouse is similar to X11 vs Wayland choice, i.e something tha is more about back-end than front-end, and didn’t realize that’s literally how your OS UI looks and controls, instead of how it works in the background (which I now know is what X11 vs Wayland is actually about)
Turned out I really don’t like Gnome (Which was default for Fedora), but love KDE, which was thankfully a default for Nobara.
So, if you’re ever recommending Linux to someone, be it in a comment or somwhere else, or someone is asking for a recommended distro, please include a short paragraph about the importance of choosing the correct DE, and explanation of what it is and that you can change it!
Ubuntu is VERY heavily invested in snaps at a very basic level. I think the recommendation is to not mix snaps and Flatpaks as they may not interact well. As a new Ubuntu user, I’m slowly discovering some of the random problems with snaps.
For example, just the other day, I was trying to configure my fish shell using the html-based fish_configure utility, but it just wouldn’t work. Of course, I assumed the problem was with my fish install. After a couple hours fiddling with it, I finally came across a stack exchange comment indicating that the snap version of Firefox simply can’t access the /tmp/ directory, which is where fish_config creates its html configuration page. WTF? Also, you can’t even install a non-snap version of Firefox via apt because the official apt repository just links back to the snap version! I finally installed an apt-based version of librewolf, but had to get it from a non-Ubuntu repository, and then magically I could access to fish_config html page. That’s a pretty long workaround just to view a simple HTML page!
So, if snaps have problems like this just interacting with the base Linux file system, I wouldn’t be surprised if random weird behavior cropped up when trying to use Flatpaks.
Android phones use Surface Flinger, which is a compositor that has nothing to do with either Wayland or X11. But we could say it’s kinda similar to Wayland in the fact that it’s composited and uses something similar to GBM and GEMM for managing buffers.
Android drivers don’t even use the same “semantics” as Linux drivers (android uses explicit sync, while Linux is implicit, but they are working on supporting explicit sync because Nvidia and because it’s better). It’s only in the last few years that you can use Linux drivers in android, plus some synchronization stuff.
Surface flinger code has some X11 code, I didn’t say it ran X11, I said it just had some of it’s base, GBM and GEMM have been only appeared in the new versions of Surface flinger.
Not a hot take, I keep saying the same thing in different threads. I was not able to switch to Linux for years before I understood that I have problems with Gnome not with Linux itself, tried KDE and given I was migrating from Windows it clicked immediately.
After you gain some experience, DE becomes mostly irrelevant, but it is crucial for starting off in an unfamiliar environment.
the DE is very important unless you have A LOT of free time and REALLY WANT to see something different from what youre used to.
my first distro (other than ubuntu in school computers, but we dont talk about those) was fedora server minimal install, where i installed dwm and had fun using it. i had just switched from windows and was happy to have so many options, even though i had (almost) no linux experience before. after trying most of the big DEs and distros, i ended up on arch with xfce, which i have been using for more than a year now.
most people really should go slower and try things step by step, as what i did would be really weird for anyone that tried it …probably
I’m not sure if it is, but I don’t see it as a hot take. And it sounds reasonable, specially when some distros offer different “flavours” out-of-the-box, and offer you the option of different DEs before you even installed it.
It’s certainly not a hot take. Every “which distro should I try thread” is just a discussion of the different DEs out there. I would like to hear about different package managers. I always seem happiest with apt, and I don’t know why.
Sway is basically the wayland version of i3. I’ve switched to wayland on my new laptop and learning sway after using i3 for years has been relatively easy.
Yeah, the config syntax is exactly the same. The major difference is the wayland version of various programs can be hard to figure out with out some decent google-fu.
I’m on BSPWM on X11, but have been trying river wm and that is a much less friendly conversion than i3 to sway. I’d convert entirely were it not for certain applications still not quite working on wayland without considerable configuration (wacom tablet drivers don’t work, screenshottung and eyedropper tools are available but still need more work to be feature comparable with equivalent tools on X11).
And I’m using proprietary NVIDIA drivers which are currently stuttering real bad on the wlroots protocol since driver update to 545 (sway/river both stutter bad whenever lots of movement on the screen, I’ve tried many tweaks to my environment variables to no avail).
So…just gonna wait for app, wayland, nvidia devs to eventually make the migrate worth while.
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