Because it’s one of the few true ones? The media and politicians trump up fears of immigrants and poor people while downplaying or ignoring tax evasion, both legal and illegal.
OP’s solution would be getting rid of capital all together and becoming best buds with China and Russia, as shown by other posts. But that is not expressed here.
Ironically, becoming best buds with Russia is something the Left and the Right agree on. At least in Germany.
Ironically, becoming best buds with Russia is something the Left and the Right agree on. At least in Germany.
Bruh. You’re just talking about Die Linke and the AFD. Nobody else agrees with it. They actually have pretty similar values, but they wouldn’t collaborate out of principal.
Westerners deciding who’s doing real socialism or not. Westerners expressing their most vile sentiment for foreign countries rather than their own imperialism. Westerners praising the words of their own imperialist intelligence agencies. Westerners unironically praising their own nations for civil liberties like the freedom of fascists to assemble, freedom of racists to express themselves, freedom of parents to own their children, and freedom of school districts to continue racial segregation. Westerners praising imperialist nations like Norway as socialist while using bold language like fascism to describe places under that same exact threat of imperialism, like Cuba and Vietnam.
Westerners claiming foreign governments are merely pretending to be socialist, while claiming unorganized misinformed chauvinistic westerners are the true heirs to socialism, despite all they do is post online and complain about foreign nations.
Westerners praising anarchist movements from 100 years ago despite having no common cause with those movements, no connection to the circumstances within them, and probably no actual admiration of them. Westerners praising a bastardized, sectarian, perverse form of anarchism rather than attempting unity with organizations in their areas. Westerners refusing to speak with actual anarchists in their area, who by and large don’t give a shit and just want to hand out food or help at shelters. If Buenaventura Durruti were alive today he’d be regarded with scorn by western chauvinists.
Westerners continuing to bring up Trotsky of all people, who wasn’t relevant to world affairs for the last 15 years of his life and certainly not the past 80 years. Westerners not reading a single word of Trotsky’s work, westerners focusing entirely on Trotsky’s feud with Stalin, westerners not knowing that Trotsky was a literal military commander. Westerners calling themselves Trotskyists in 2023 for some reason. Westerners deciding they have a feud with Joseph Stalin, a man who died in 1953.
Westerners attempting to praise their own socialist leadership, who happen to be a scattered group of imperialist-aligned social democrats, Twitch streamers, and actual antisemitic grifters such as in the case of Caleb Maupin.
I dont want to be a victim of hexbear road rage thanks. You guys just vomit out material in hopes that you can string it together to form a cogent argument. Then you come back smug as ever asking why i didnt respond to the 10k talking points as if I was a human encyclopedia.
How would I distinguish you, based only on your reply, from someone who took one look at two whole paragraphs and decided you weren’t going to read that but had to keep arguing no matter what and spewed out some sour grape nonsense?
How should we frame our arguments in response to a meme that paints every single prominent socialist and socialist country as fascist without addressing each one?
Really the burden of proof should be on the one making the claim, shouldn’t it?
We don’t ignore it when a socialist country takes security measures, we say they’re an unfortunate reality of steps a country has to take in order to defend itself against external and internal aggression. Having your country go socialist earns you a lot of enemies and having a lot of enemies means you have to build up things like intelligence agencies, military apparatuses, and centralized agencies for combating sabotage and spying. These are things every country does, but western nations like to paint the security measures that socialist nations take as purely authoritarian, or needlessly tyrannical, or whatever other word gets thrown around. The nations yelling at socialist countries to change their domestic policies are usually the most imperialist and have the most to gain from socialist states being dismantled.
When your enemies are the global capitalists who operate global finance and industry, you should probably build up something to defend against it. Nukes tend to work as a deterrent, but they only go so far when you’ve also got an internal population that can present a security problem.
China’s taken the smartest strategy of all honestly. They’ve intertwined their economy with the imperial powers to the point it’s impossible to disentangle. The west can’t take violent action against China, since that’s where the industry is.
Also, so called authoritarian measures against our enemies are a good thing. It’s good when fascists, racists, and imperialists lose civil liberties like the freedom to express themselves, organize, fund politicians, or operate businesses.
Do you think that we will see true communism ever arise from authoritarianism? I don’t think that is possible.
I think that authoritarianism is a lot more palatable to the imperialists than actual communism would be, I worry that, quite apart from it being wrong to curtail civil rights, by being authoritarian a socialist state is simply dancing to the tune of the imperialists.
I don’t think I’m comfortable with a central power having the authority to decide that certain groups don’t have rights, that power is too often abused widely.
Personally I don’t believe the term authoritarianism is a useful description of anything. It’s too vague. I’ve seen one definition that’s like “a system that rejects the involvement of certain groups or interests from the political process.” Well that would be all socialist nations by default, since socialist countries by definition have denied political representation for the capitalist class in some way.
A better question is: How is a socialist country supposed to defend itself? It may not be possible for a country to achieve what Marx called upper-phase communism. It may not be possible for money, states, and all property to be abolished. That’s a question for the future. But when a country tries to curtail the power of capitalists, even attempts to create what’s known as true communism, they find themselves on the receiving end of an entire world against them. Sanctions, invasions, sabotage, spying. The shape that a socialist country will take is the result of its conditions. We’re living in a world dominated by capital and socialist countries represent a resistance against capital. If socialist movements are threatened, they either defend themselves or collapse.
You’re right that countries are dancing to the imperialists, because the imperialists hold the most power right now. That’s why an anti-imperialist movement is important, why a multi-polar world is important. Once the threat of imperialism subsides or is defeated, then I’m going to guess socialist countries will begin to express their policies differently.
I don’t think I’m comfortable with a central power having the authority to decide that certain groups don’t have rights, that power is too often abused widely.
Is there any society that isn’t this? A central authority deciding how to distribute rights is a governing body.
Socialism is a movement about denying the right of property to capitalists. That’s the entire purpose of the movement, to elevate working class people to the point of dominating society and to restrain or abolish the capitalist class. Landlords and capitalists shouldn’t be able to exercise the same rights they have in a liberal capitalist nation. Fascists, racists, transphobes, imperialists, etc shouldn’t have any civil liberties and should be subject to arrest, reeducation, or worse.
Said no one. Except you. You either know what a Gish gallop is, or you don’t. A long comment is not necessarily a Gish gallop. In this case the charge is entirely accurate.
As if it’s somehow impossible to make a long comment in support of a single argument? As if Gish galloping comments don’t actually exist? Do I follow your logic properly? What part about this do I not understand?
Their argument was that so called Western socialists are mostly just Western chauvinists who make their determination on what movements are “real socialists” based on how closely they align, racially and culturally, to the West.
Being a republican means you never have to admit you’re wrong. You just live in a whole other universe where chemtrails turn the frogs gay, and Trump is an innocent, Christ-like patriot.
As far as I’m concerned each side has been just as annoying and incorrect as the other. Have you seen some of the stupid and objectively false things people say? It’s not just conservatives.
America is hosting the world cup next so…yeah literally at this point anything goes. The only way it could be worse is if the literal Nazi regime was back and they were hosting the world cup.
Fun fact: some people have a nature fetish and will dig holes in the ground or bore holes in trees so they can literally fuck the earth. I’m not judging, but now you have to share the burden of this knowledge.
I’m not really sure what quantum archeology is, but another possibility is that, should we ever discover a way of circumventing the speed of light, you could fly millions of light-years away and set up a big-ass telescope to watch past earth. It’d only work if we discover a way of travelling ftl though, and it’s highly unlikely we’ll accomplish that in our lifetimes.
There are so many crazy possibilities that will probably never happen, I love imagining what the world would be like if we could look through a time window - my daydream is normally about sending probes back to the point in space earth used to be and how fascinating the debates about where to look first would be, knowing it’s going to take years to get there and record it with everyone debating and getting anxious as to what it’ll see.
Like imagine how much information you’d get from fifteen minutes 4k footage of a Roman senate debate, and how disappointing it’d be after all that anticipation if you get a day or was closed. Still a billion things to obsess over in the image but disappointing when you’re hoping to see ceaser speak
Of course trying to catch sight of Jesus would be a huge project, I imagine it like those grifts where people go looking for the arc. What do they do if there’s no sign? What do they do if when they look nothing is anything like expected - would be so many people trying to find clues to what actually happened, at some point someone is going to find something really wild like they finally find someone from the Bible but it’s Jesus mate Judas laughing about how rich they’re getting pulling the reward money and rescue scam from the good the bad and the ugly…
And the people scouring to get clips for their YouTube channel, histories biggest cringe moments, wildest parties in history, luckiest trick shots ever…
What I would find absolutely crazy is someone having no idea how this technology that we find ubiquitous, but the far future doesn’t have a clue about it, so someone gets out his Quantum Resurrection machine and brings back Millenial Grandpa to explain how the cartridge needs to be blown into
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