homeassistant

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Stormfur, (edited ) in Haier, the air conditioner maker, takes down open source third-party Home Assistant integration

The developer commented the following:

Luckily I’m insured. I’ve contacted my legal expenses insurance and they’re covering a lawyer for the case. I will seek advice and see how an expert assesses the situation and then proceed.

Tldr, They are going to fight this!

Source: github.com/Andre0512/hon/issues/147#issuecomment-…

Batbro,

What sort of insurance is that and do I need to get some?

RegalPotoo,
@RegalPotoo@lemmy.world avatar

It’s pretty common for freelance developers to have insurance like this - if I screw up and you get ransonwared, insurance pays for a lawyer to explain the contracts indemnity clause to you using small words

NightAuthor,

But what if I saved money not talking to a lawyer and never had the client sign an indemnity?

RegalPotoo,
@RegalPotoo@lemmy.world avatar

Then don’t screw up

If you have already screwed up, you now get to play The Game of Litigation, where their lawyers try to prove that you are liable for billions of dollars in damages, and your lawyer tries to prove that you aren’t. The way the game works is whoever spends the most on lawyers wins. You’ve got more cash to spend than your clients right?

charles,

Most professions where action/inaction can result in damages will have similar insurance. Some insurance firms even specialize in coverage for professionals.

If your profession has an association or similar group, they should be able to help you find those firms if they exist.

tdc,

Not sure if it’s really the freelance/professional thing others mentioned. Private legal expense insurance (Rechtsschutzversicherung) is fairly common in Germany, so might just be that.

Dehydrated,

The developer is German, in Germany it’s pretty common to have a Rechtsschutzversicherung. You pay them monthly or yearly and in exchange you can request legal advice from one of their lawyers af any time. It’s pretty neat.

Marsupial,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Germany sounds ridiculous with how many insurances you have to waste money and time on.

Dehydrated,

Imagine being American and not even having health insurance

Marsupial,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Good thing I’m Australian.

Tangent5280,

Imagine being Australian

ouRKaoS,

Imagine being American, having quite expensive health insurance, then discovering your insurance doesn’t cover any of your basic healthcare needs.

EarMaster,

You don’t have to, but if you do you may have the ability to stand up against a company trying to shut down your open source project…

Marsupial,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Or you could just hire a consultant when you need it?

$200 once in your life vs 396 a year, is kinda a no brainer situation.

Varcour,

You do realize a consultation is just the first step, right? If he wants to fight this he’ll need quite a bit more than 200

Miaou,

Not getting the downvotes, a lot of those are quite stupid. The Rechtsschutz is basically required if you drive for example, only because of game theory, not because it actually brings anything

Marsupial,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

It’s just reddit group think, sadly we didn’t leave that behind.

I’ve got them disabled on my instance anyway so I don’t even see it. As far as I know everyone likes my posts because I only see upvotes.

NightAuthor,

Well, I hate this comment and I’ve downvoted it.

alphapuggle,

In America I just use my buddy Carl. He’s also my doctor.

AA5B,

Wow, and it is a real lawyer? I e had employers with benefits that sound similar but I think only get things like templates for common documents like wills and contracts that you can get anywhere, or “free” co suits like you can get anywhere.

I actually do phage a upcoming minor legal need this year, and they couldn’t even tell me , using that as an example, what would the benefit cover?

Dehydrated,

Yes, typically you get to talk to real lawyers. They may not be the best lawyers on the planet, but if you just need some advice, you should be perfectly fine.

scrubbles, in Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

Amazing. Let’s truly take it from their point of view.

The only people who care about this plugin are HomeAssistant users, so a very small subset. Those users then either

A) Already own the product, and thus are not going to cost them anything because they already bought it or B) Home Assistant users who are in the market for their product, and from experience will only buy a product if there’s an HA plugin.

In what way are they losing “millions” to these 2 groups again?

I have literally made decisions on purchases like vehicles on if they have a home assistant plugin or not. For HomeAssitant users it’s one of the largest factors.

dantheclamman,
@dantheclamman@lemmy.world avatar

It is insanely petty. Perhaps they don’t want people reverse engineering their APIs, but all their competitors and threat actors likely do it, just not on a public repo.

utopiah,

I’m in nearly B as I usually only buy things with proper protocols, e.g Zigbee, that might not need a dedicated plugin. So obviously Haier is now a company I won’t buy anything from and will actively not recommend to anything who cares about my opinion on IoT.

dynamojoe, in Haier, the air conditioner maker, takes down open source third-party Home Assistant integration

My guess is someone saw what was being built and said “hey, we can build something similar and sell it”, hence the C&D.

Dehydrated,

Still a ridiculous move. If I buy an appliance, I pay for it and I own it. I am allowed to do with it whatever I want. If I want to use my own solution for controlling it, hosted on my own server, I should have every right to do so. Fuck corporations and their shitty cloud solutions.

jonne,

The EU really needs to start doing something about this kind of shit.

Tinidril,

The US does too, but fat chance of that happening.

AzPsycho,

The Apple iOS method. See a great app or product on your platform. If they won’t sell it or want to much Apple just makes their own version and prohibits the original.

bamboo,

This is actually a thing and is called Sherlocking: thehustle.co/sherlocking-explained/

redcalcium, (edited )

Apple is so notorious at doing this, it’s not even funny anymore. The article didn’t mention these two famous sherlocking cases though:

Reygle, in Haier response to my feedback after Louis' YT video.
@Reygle@lemmy.world avatar

Independant my aching ass. Haier US is Haier corporate’s (Qindao) b*tch and everyone knows it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haier

The only “smart” appliance to own is an offline appliance.

cynar,

Some are actually welcoming, and provide a local API. That way your air-conditioning control isn’t web dependent.

Unfortunately, most are quite stupid about it, and insist on using their app. This voids any usefulness of having smart appliances. E.g. pulse a light in a room when the tumble dryer finishes or turn it on and off dependent on your rooftop solar’s output.

helenslunch,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Not stupid, just greedy.

They’re gonna make money from selling whatever data they can mine from your mobile device and likely selling you monthly subscriptions.

cynar,

Lazy would be a better description. They want the tech cred of having it be an IoT device. They also hope to leverage it to get more money. Unfortunately, the budget, and coherent drive for this isn’t there. The end result is a “designed by committee” app. It ticks all the boxes, but also misses all the things that would help actually get people using it.

helenslunch,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

If they were lazy they would have just not done anything and let the HA users carry on.

cynar,

Just because 1 department is being lazy doesn’t mean their legal aren’t.

awwwyissss,

turn it on and off dependent on your rooftop solar’s output

I love stuff like this. Turn on the dryer and put the window shades up when the sun’s out.

zeekaran,

… Or has ZigBee/Z-Wave.

RobotToaster,

It’s still a pretty good sign IMO. Brands won’t usually distance themselves from their parent companies unless they have a good reason to.

claude_flammang,

@RobotToaster @homeassistant
Parent company is chinese, the european branch is a sister: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haier

AreaKode, (edited ) in Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

Oh no. At least there’s no way for everyone in the world to make a backup before it goes dark…

Steve,

It would be a shame if 697 people and counting were to fork the project, it would be a real pain to serve each one of them with takedown notices.

helenslunch, (edited )
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

This is the great thing about FOSS. Someone else will just take the code and reupload it. If they want it removed from GitHub, they can deal with Microsoft. At which point it’ll just be re-uploaded again. There’s nothing illegal about it.

So Haier suffers the Streisand effect and the people who want to simply continue using it.

1stTime4MeInMCU,

Right… they claim hosting it is a violation of their TOS, but I’m not one of their customers. How can I violate their TOS if I don’t even use their product.

friend_of_satan, in Another successful Honeywell T6 install

Yo dawg, I heard you like wall plates.

orion2145, in Another successful Honeywell T6 install

The three layers of backplates hurts me.

lightrush,
@lightrush@lemmy.ca avatar

Gotta hide the drywall horror show the HVAC people left. 😅

orion2145,

Totally understand. I came back for mine, cleaned it all up, patched, painted and lost all back plating. But again, I totally feel your pain.

lightrush,
@lightrush@lemmy.ca avatar

Some day! :D

AVincentInSpace, in Haier, the air conditioner maker, takes down open source third-party Home Assistant integration

Better yet, make an example out of Haier. Prove to companies everywhere that allowing open source compatibility can only be good for them.

Dehydrated,

Let’s prove to companies that hostility towards open source can be really bad for them

Bakkoda,

I literally buy based off Home Assistant support. If it needs to be smart and it’s not supported by home assistant it’s not coming in the house.

AbouBenAdhem, (edited ) in Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

TIL General Electric Appliances, Hoover, Fisher & Paykel, Aqua, Hotpoint, Leader, and Candy are all owned by the same company.

reddig33,

Sad, isn’t it? For fun, look up Whirlpool, Albertsons, and Kroger on Wikipedia to see all the brands they own. No wonder prices are high when so much competition has been eliminated.

nexusband, (edited )
@nexusband@lemmy.world avatar

For the Europeans, look up AEG, Bauknecht, Electrolux, Liebherr…sad story as well. And one hell of a case for rampant capitalism running amok…

KyuubiNoKitsune,

BuT ThE FrEe mArKeT!!

nexusband,
@nexusband@lemmy.world avatar

There’s a difference between rampant capitalism running amok and the free market…free always needs rules, or it would be anarchy…

eatfudd,

Muh freedom

JustEnoughDucks,
@JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl avatar

Please yell me bosch and Siemens are seperate companies…

nexusband,
@nexusband@lemmy.world avatar

Nope, they are not, at least in terms of household appliances. BUT they still produce quality stuff in Germany and Europe. And they actually never have been separate. And HomeConnect is commited to HAOS, iirc they actually provide some code to the plugin.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSH_Hausgeräte

APassenger,

Quick nofe: Albertsons and Kroger want to be one company. Soon.

Heir_Of_Isildur,

Noted, thanks

GreatAlbatross, in Haier, the air conditioner maker, takes down open source third-party Home Assistant integration
@GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk avatar

I was planning to replace a lot of my white goods this year.
This move has 100% eliminated Haier from any of my decisions.

iAmNotorious,
@iAmNotorious@lemmy.world avatar

Make sure to check all of Haier’s subsidies. GE is one of them.

Thcdenton, in Another successful Honeywell T6 install

25°. Lizard man confirmed.

keefshape,

Right? I started sweating as soon as I saw the temp in the pic.

Marsupial,
@Marsupial@quokk.au avatar

Sweating over a barmy 25?

Lifebandit666,

If it’s anything like my setup (posted in the thread) they’ll have a colder spot in the house, whereas the thermostat is in a warm part of the house.

My Nest heats to 22 degrees C but the whole house temp is a couple degrees lower than that.

When the whole house temp hits 20 the heating is switched off, but looking at the thermostat you’d think we’re heating the house to a silly temp, when in fact there’s a disparity between the thermostat temp and the temp of the whole house.

lightrush, (edited )
@lightrush@lemmy.ca avatar

No, it really is 25° in the two rooms this unit heats up. 🦎

With that said, the temperature rarely falls below 25°C due to the heat coming off of the neighbouring units in the building, unless I open the window. 🥹

CondorWonder, in How do you get the top bar?

It’s called Badges - edit the dashboard page, then click on the edit button beside the tab.

sabreW4K3,
@sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf avatar

Thank you!

ThrustyRL,

Do either of you know what entity is being used for weather? I use openweathermap for my weather entities, but none of them provide a nice image of the weather like in the picture above

CondorWonder,

Maybe a template sensor over the openweathermap_forecast_condition state? You can pretty easily have a template change its icon, and mdi: has all the icons built in.

Here’s a template I use for current condition in a card, but it should work similarly for the forecast. Or works just need to be applied to the icon of a template sensor.


<span style="color:#323232;">{{ iif(
</span><span style="color:#323232;">        is_state("weather.openweathermap", "partlycloudy"), "mdi:weather-partly-cloudy", 
</span><span style="color:#323232;">        iif(is_state("weather.openweathermap", "clear-night"), "mdi:weather-night",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">        iif(is_state("weather.openweathermap", "exceptional"), "mdi:exclamation-thick",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">        "mdi:weather-" + states("weather.openweathermap"
</span><span style="color:#323232;">        )))) }}
</span>
sabreW4K3,
@sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf avatar

If you go into your HA, open up the integrations panel and it should list all the entities

deegeese, in Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

Special shout-out to LiftMaster/Chamberlain who did the same rug-pull on their customers last year.

Never trust free cloud services attached to a paid product.

dom, in Haier response to my feedback after Louis' YT video.

Hopefully it was escalated it up to Haier global or whatever. Brand reputatio issues n in eu can be damaging to their US counterparts

fenynro,

It almost assuredly was not escalated to global. I received the same canned answer from them earlier and asked to be put in contact with a person from the European company.

Their response was to send me here: www.haier-europe.com/en_GB/…/contact-us/

If you poke around, you’ll find that there is no effective way to contact anyone by email unless you’ve got a specific support question with a model number attached, so I sent an email directly to support.ecommerce@haier-europe.com

Will it matter for anything? Probably not. Will at least one guy have to read some stern words about an attack on open source development? Yep, and that’s good enough for me I guess :P

azdle,
@azdle@news.idlestate.org avatar

That doesn’t mean the issue wasn’t/won’t be escalated. It might even mean it’s more likely since someone bothered to make a response macro for it, they presumably got more than one or two emails about it. So it’s probably more likely to make it on a “list of issues we saw this week/sprint/month/quarter”.

Stormfur, in Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

I was happy to see earlier, the developer commented the following:

Luckily I’m insured. I’ve contacted my legal expenses insurance and they’re covering a lawyer for the case. I will seek advice and see how an expert assesses the situation and then proceed.

Tldr, They are going to fight this!

Source: github.com/Andre0512/hon/issues/147#issuecomment-…

RvTV95XBeo,

Their follow-up:

I have written to Haier to try to get some clarification and perhaps an agreement. I hope Haier will listen to us now that so many people are supporting us. Thank you all!

Dear Haier team,

you have probably noticed that my announcement to delete the plugin has met with a lot of displeasure from the community. There are a number of people who bought your appliances not only because of the good price/performance ratio, but also because they can be integrated into home assistant.

I think it would be helpful to the discussion if you could explain the following questions:


<span style="color:#323232;">   Please provide details of WHICH clauses of terms of service does this project violate?
</span><span style="color:#323232;">   What is an unauthorized manner?  
</span><span style="color:#323232;">   What significant economic harm is being faced by the company? (in terms of dollar figures)
</span><span style="color:#323232;">   When did these projects violate your intellectual property?
</span>

I’m sorry if some people have gone over the top, but this doesn’t have to escalate and there doesn’t have to be a bad reputation for your brand in the open source community.

Can we find a common solution here? Can I do something to make the plugins use the API more economically? Should we reduce the polling? I would like to release a new version that uses the API in a way that does not harm your business. You can also consider an official home assistant integration, the home assistant guys would like to get in touch with you for that. This would be a great competitive advantage within the smart home community.

I hope to get an answer and until then I’ll leave the repos online.

Andre

limelight79,

Dude has a good heart, that’s for sure. I hope Haier sees the light.

racemaniac,

I love his reply, but i’m afraid history so far has shown that supporting open platforms is not a competitive advantage. The number of hackers like us in the smart home market is negligable. Proper closed platforms rake in the big money, and the public loves it… Add on some cloud integration & a subscription to functionalities that would take a home assistant user not much time to set up, and you’ve got something the average customer seems to want…

Still a shit (and probably without any real legal basis) attempt by Haier, but if they’re actually aiming at a walled smart home system, from an economical perspective they’re probably right… And i hate that they’re right…

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