const_void, (edited )

This is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard of. I’m not buying any keyboard or laptop that has this key. There’s enough Linux-first vendors these days that it’s easy to avoid (Framework, System76, Tuxedo, etc). It’s time to be done with Lenovo and Dell.

BaldProphet,
@BaldProphet@kbin.social avatar

I fully agree with you, but Framework is definitely not Linux-first. The only OS they offer preloaded on their laptops is Windows. You have to install Linux yourself if you want it.

subtext,

I think they’re referring to Framework’s support for full Linux compatibility for at least Ubuntu, and making sure that the parts they use have first class Linux support and drivers and kernel integration.

palordrolap, (edited )

This is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard of. I’m not buying any keyboard or laptop that has this key.

Which is exactly what people said about the Windows key.

Now it's all but impossible to buy a keyboard that doesn't have it. Worse, most of us use it without thinking.

Sure you can call it Super if you like, and even have a Tux key-cap on it, but there used to be a literal gap between the Alt keys and their Ctrl brethren in the lateral directions away from the space bar, and those days are long gone.

There'll be the niche users who stick with old keyboards without this new key, just like there are the die-hards who have stuck resolutely to the old IBM keyboards and the like from pre-1995, but if you want a new keyboard?

Gonna have to shell out a small fortune for a custom build or make do with that dumb new key.

(Shoutout to the Context Menu key which went as unmentioned in the above as it goes unused in day to day use, despite having been included with its Super cousin since day one.)

brax,

I don’t see an issue with a “super” key. But what would a copilot key bring that’s of any value? The super key already does everything you’d need.

Krzd,
@Krzd@lemmy.world avatar

more keys for custom keybinds ¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯ depending on where it’s located I’ll probably just use it as a microphone toggle

brax, (edited )

We have so many unused potential binds already, though. Knowing the way tech goes these days, they’ll find a way to hard-code the key to one macro and that’s it lol

Krzd,
@Krzd@lemmy.world avatar

Depends how they do it, if it’s in the registry you can change it.
The point is to have an unused button that you can rebind freely

brax,

Pure hyperbole “late stage capitalism”: they’ll have it wired directly into the board. At best it will cover one key chord.

Even later stage, it’ll send some proprietary data that only windows 11 can interpret. Linux users will figure it out and make use of it, then will be promptly sued out of existence for copyright infringement or something lol.

Can we get this more dystopian? I’m out of ideas.

Krzd,
@Krzd@lemmy.world avatar

Nah, they’ll send a package to a Microsoft server that’ll then respond with the keybind and open the program

brax,

But you can only press it five times before you have to buy a license to active it.

Also, if you want to deactivate it you’ll need to purchase a separate license.

If neither license is purchased, it presents a nag screen each time. 😂

Krzd,
@Krzd@lemmy.world avatar

What, fuck licenses, we’re doing subscriptions here. With multiple tiers, first one just reduces the charge per activation, and the ones after that give you X “free” uses per 12 hours.

Hexarei,
@Hexarei@programming.dev avatar

yeah it’s almost certainly gonna be bound to Super+C, the existing keybind for copilot

Nisaea,
@Nisaea@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Wow when you out it that way it sounds even dumber

giloronfoo,

The video made it look like this was the context menu key. This may just be a key cap change for WHQL certification of keyboards.

PumaStoleMyBluff, (edited )

The article actually says the Copilot key will mostly be replacing Menu or Right Control on existing layouts. So if you’re already not using those (or are already re-binding them), it’s just a new keycap.

Dirk,
@Dirk@lemmy.ml avatar

iit’s just a new keycap

Plus the configuration that is needed to remap the key back to the correct key code.

const_void,

Gonna have to shell out a small fortune for a custom build or make do with that dumb new key.

I don’t think this is true. Just buy a laptop from a company that ships it with Linux. No Windows, no Windows keys. It doesn’t have to be ‘custom’.

kzhe,

The post mentioned this, and argues that a super a key is basically just a windows key

PixxlMan,

So what key are they gonna put there when all cheap generic Chinese keyboard makers start including this button on all their variants of keyboards?

Hexarei,
@Hexarei@programming.dev avatar

The context menu or right-ctrl key, probably

cmnybo,

The context menu key is more useful when it’s remapped to the compose key.

state_electrician,

My keyboard has a Linux key. And I happily use it.

sir_reginald,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

As you said, there used to be a gap there. Replacing a gap makes not that much harm and people find it useful even in Linux for keybindings. In more of an Alt kind of guy, but Super is also there for more combinations available.

The Copilot key appears to be going were the right Control or right Alt key are right now, so that’s going to be a bother for a lot of people.

unionagainstdhmo,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

Hey! I used the context menu key today… Just to see what it does and ask why?

Dirk,
@Dirk@lemmy.ml avatar

Like with the Windows key, this won’t be an option.

cyberpunk007,

Ah yes, just like you had that option with the windows key right?

chitak166,

Unfortunately, the “linux-first” vendors do not offer better deals than their competition.

knightly,
@knightly@pawb.social avatar

They absolutely do, when one considers the negative value of Windows.

fruitycoder,

It depends on how and what you’re measuring. A lot of Linux first, like system 76 and purism, do so e serious work on the firmware and boot systems of their systems. Which for some is a huge value add compared.

njordomir,

Same, I think I might give the System76 Darter a try when I eventually have to replace my Xps 9370. It’s bad enough that my computer comes with a windows logo on the super-key and often windows preinstalled. Shipping with a non-ANSI/ISO layout is a no-buy for me.

Joker,

I don’t care as long as the placement is ok and I can map it to something useful. I’m a GNOME user so the Windows/Super key gets a lot of use. It’s nice to have. A new key that I use for all my custom shortcuts would actually be kind of nice. Who cares that the default key caps are a Windows icon and this Copilot thing? Change the key caps and they are just keys.

possiblylinux127,

AI AI AI AI AI AI!

bruhduh, (edited )
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Pillar man theme intensives (yes, this is jojo reference)

drndramrndra,

IÄ! IÄ! CTHULHU FHTAGN!

LunarLoony,
@LunarLoony@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Calm down, Steve

SuperSpruce,

Why? Win+C launches Copilot already, if you want to use it. It’s simple enough currently, why change it? This will just make everything worse.

OsrsNeedsF2P,

Why? Investment hype

Swaziboy,

Bingo

aksdb,

Awesome Keyboard with AI Support *

  • On supported Operating Systems **

** With separate subscription.

cyberpunk007,

I can’t wait to no longer find a keyboard without this key.

possiblylinux127,

You can always use those keyboards from the 2000’s

dubyakay,

Welcome to the custom mechanical keyboard scene.

erwan,

I’m pretty sure you’ll be able to find keyboards with a different icon that the ugly copilot, and then you can map it to whatever you want.

Thermal_shocked,

Like the shitty bixby button on phones.

Technus,

In the five years of owning this phone, I have never once pressed that button on purpose. I press it on accident at least once a week.

Thermal_shocked,

5 years… do you have the S9? cause im exactly the same, never intentionally used it. ever.

Technus,

lol yep, S9.

Thermal_shocked,

Using it til it dies. Love this phone.

Bronco1676, (edited )

I have the s10+ and it’s actually useful, as you can remap the double click on that button to open any app you like. But yeah single click, never happened intentionally.

EDIT: F yeah, I just checked the settings and you can decide if you want bixby activation on single or double-click. Now I’ve set bixby to double click and on single-click it opens my password manager. If you don’t select anything, it will do nothing on a single click.

The setting is under “Advanced Features” -> “Bixby Key” for me.

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/44f31bda-26f4-419f-bb41-94bd87a6205e.png

someacnt_,

This requires logging in to bixby for me.

sir_reginald, (edited )
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

because most people are unaware of keybindings and when they inevitable tap on the new dedicated key they’ll probably be shown a subscription screen for Copilot Premium or whatever they call it.

IMO it’s a very disgusting and intrusive way of fishing subscriptions to the AI thing they’ve invested so much money on.

savvywolf,
@savvywolf@pawb.social avatar

Do people actually want this?

Like, I know the megacorps that control our lives do (since it’s a cheap way of adding value to their products), but what about actual users? I think many see it as a novelty and a toy rather than a productivity tool. Especially when public awareness of “hallucinations” and the plight faced by artists rises.

Kinda feels like the whole “voice controlled assistants” bubble that happened a while ago. Sure they are relatively commonplace nowadays, but nowhere near as universal as people thought they would be.

Revan343,

Another key to bind to something else? Hell yeah

humanplayer2,
@humanplayer2@lemmy.ml avatar

Nope, just a new logo on an existing key.

Revan343,

:(

PixxlMan,

Not a single soul wants this. They just want to use every foul trick to get you to use copilot (by accident even) just like they do with bing and their other garbage.

FigMcLargeHuge,

Do people actually want this?

Nope. Just like those stupid hard coded buttons on my Roku remote that I have never used.

EvilMonkeySlayer,

I think it's those stupid hard coded buttons on my remote that I accidentally press every so often then have to repeatedly try and back/exit out of the stupid thing it launched that I cannot remove/uninstall from my tv.

nyan, (edited )

If you can figure out how to get the remote open, you’ll probably find that the buttons are all part of the same flexible rubbery insert (unless it’s 10+ years old). Put a little tape on the bottoms of the ones causing you problems. The insulation should keep them from working, and it’s 100% reversible if you ever do find a use for them.

If it’s one of the older, more expensive remotes with individual switches, then, yeah, pliers and superglue. 😅

Donjuanme,

Super glue, or pliers and super glue.

Akip,
Dirk,
@Dirk@lemmy.ml avatar

Do people actually want this?

Absolutely not. But this is the new standard now.

homesweethomeMrL,

The new Micro$oft standard, which, as always, is bullshit and should be avoided and ignored at all times.

Dirk,
@Dirk@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes. The Microsoft standard. Like the Windows key on all keyboards nowadays.

Awhiskeydrunker,
@Awhiskeydrunker@kbin.social avatar

Maybe I'm a pessimist but this is going to really resonate with the people who are "looking forward to AI" because they read headlines, but haven't actually used any LLMs yet because nobody has told them how.

Uranium3006,
@Uranium3006@kbin.social avatar

I want a voice controlled assistant that runs locally and is fully FOSS and I can just run on my bog standard linux PC, hardware minimum requirements nonwithstanding

FrostyTrichs,

All I want is a real life iteration of J.A.R.V.I.S. and several billion dollars so I can blurt out cool ideas and have them rendered and built in a couple hours.

I’ll be good I promise.

fruitycoder,

Mycroft was the best bet for this before now being continued by open voice OS.

coolin,

Current LLMs are manifestly different from Cortana (🤢) because they are actually somewhat intelligent. Microsoft’s copilot can do web search and perform basic tasks on the computer, and because of their exclusive contract with OpenAI they’re gonna have access to more advanced versions of GPT which will be able to do more high level control and automation on the desktop. It will 100% be useful for users to have this available, and I expect even Linux desktops will eventually add local LLM support (once consumer compute and the tech matures). It is not just glorified auto complete, it is actually fairly correlated with outputs of real human language cognition.

The main issue for me is that they get all the data you input and mine it for better models without your explicit consent. This isn’t an area where open source can catch up without significant capital in favor of it, so we have to hope Meta, Mistral and government funded projects give us what we need to have a competitor.

savvywolf,
@savvywolf@pawb.social avatar

Sure, all that may be true but it doesn’t answer my original concern: Is this something that people want as a core feature of their OS? My comments weren’t that “oh, this is only as technically sophisticated as voice assistants”, it was more “voice assistants never really took off as much as people thought they would”. I may be cynical and grumpy, but to me it feels like these companies are failing to read the market.

I’m reminded of a presentation that I saw where they were showing off fancy AI technology. Basically, if you were in a call 1 to 1 call with someone and had to leave to answer the doorbell or something, the other person could keep speaking and an AI would summarise what they said when they got back.

It felt so out of touch with what people would actually want to do in that situation.

knightly,
@knightly@pawb.social avatar

I hope the LLM bubble pops this year. The degree of overinvestment by megacorps is staggering.

coolin,

I suppose having worked with LLMs a whole bunch over the past year I have a better sense of what I meant by “automate high level tasks”.

I’m talking about an assistant where, let’s say you need to edit a podcast video to add graphics and cut out dead space or mistakes that you corrected in the recording. You could tell the assistant to do that and it would open the video in Adobe Premiere pro, do the necessary tasks, then ask you to review it to check if it made mistakes.

Or if you had an issue with a particular device, e.g. your display, the assistant would research the issue and perform the necessary steps to troubleshoot and fix the issue.

These are currently hypothetical scenarios, but current GPT4 can already perform some of these tasks, and specifically training it to be a desktop assistant and to do more agentic tasks will make this a reality in a few years.

It’s additionally already useful for reading and editing long documents and will only get better on this end. You can already use an LLM to query your documents and give you summaries or use them as instructions/research to aid in performing a task.

fine_sandy_bottom,

I guess my understanding of an LLM must be way off base.

I had thought that asking an LLM to edit a video was simply out of scope. Like asking your self driving car to wash the dishes.

chicken, (edited )

A year ago local LLM was just not there, but the stuff you can run now with 8gb vram is pretty amazing, if not quite as good yet as GPT 4. Honestly even if it stops right where it is, it’s still powerful enough to be a foundation for a more accessible and efficient way to interface with computers.

kristina,

how could it possibly be that urgent that it needs a key dedicated to it

JuryNullification,

It’s probably like the Bixby button on my Samsung phone: all it does is complain I haven’t set it up yet when I accidentally push it while changing the volume.

CodingCarpenter,

You don’t just remap it to screen on and off?

JuryNullification,

It’s a work phone and I don’t really care about it, but thanks for letting me know that’s possible.

flan,
@flan@hexbear.net avatar

i dont really understand the revenue model here. i also dont understand how there’s going to be enough computational power to do LLM shit for all windows users all the time? this sounds bad for the environment.

sekhat,

Running a pre trained model is much cheaper than training one. But I’d imagine in this case you’ll be sending it over to Microsoft Servers, so they can keep track of everything you ever search so they can better advertise to you.

umbrella,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

how the fuck can they just decide this

sarchar,

Probably through licensing agreements with PC retailers.

But you can also just decide not to buy them.

umbrella,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

can i decide to buy a keyboard without the windows key today?

Molten_Moron, (edited )

There’s always the IBM Model M or, if you prefer USB, there are remakes with it.

variants,

Wow it’s yuuge

sarchar,

Umm, it’s just a keycap. You can map the key to whatever you want.

umbrella,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

agreed, however it defeats the point that its going to be optional if they really decide to do it.

leopold,

sure, any Apple keyboard

ProgrammingSocks,

Microsoft is a monopoly. Stallman was right, as usual in software

umbrella,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

stallman is still right

Blackmist,

Really milking that fad before they inevitably push anything useful behind a monthly paywall.

init,

As long as the ability to manually turn off secureboot and remove the OS isn’t locked behind a subscription…

Anticorp,

It’s already behind a paywall. You can’t access ChatGPT-4 without paying.

sir_reginald,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

and yet they are still loosing money by running ChayGPT 3.5 for free. I guess that in the future they’ll switch to a local small model in the hardware that is capable enough.

Anticorp,

I think it’s like anything on the modern web, they’ll lose money until they reach a critical mass of users who get accustomed to using ChatGPT in their day-to-day life, and then they’ll kill the free tier.

Blue_Morpho,

Except their free tier is still around for everything that they started as free. Outlook, bing, Visual Studio Code, even office is free for students and teachers.

They’ll always keep the low tier free to get people hooked and charge businesses whatever.

Anticorp,

Microsoft has free tier Office tools because they’re data brokers now. TMK they didn’t always have free Outlook, it was bundled in Office, which cost money. I don’t see ChatGPT remaining free forever, it costs too much to run. I could be wrong though, depending on how much valuable data they can scrape from it.

Blue_Morpho,

Yeah they didn’t gave a free Office, Outlook or Visual studio. Now they do and there is no sign of them stopping it. Bing is expensive and they aren’t stopping it.

Chatgpt is MS’s first real chance of dethroning Google search. They’re going to keep a free tier forever.

0x2d,

i run linux on a surface and it’s great. when it breaks beyond repair though, i won’t get another because of bullshit like this

yogurtwrong, (edited )
@yogurtwrong@lemmy.world avatar

Planning on buying a surface and installing Linux. How’s your experience, is there so much bullshit to deal with? I really want a Linux tablet

0x2d, (edited )

touchscreen and stuff work fine in linux-surface

you need libcamera for the camera to work

TerraRoot,

Just realized my keyboard is 22 years old.

15liam20,

Sounds like you can legally fuck it.

The_Helmet_Stays_On,

Who says he hasn’t?

TerraRoot,

So you guys don’t think I should buy a new one, just attach a usb vagina to my old one?

Awoo,

Rebranded Cortana?

Destined to fail.

Michal,

Is it just Cortana? I was under impression they’re integrating ChatGPT-like llm into windows.

Awoo, (edited )

Chatgpt is just Cortana with better marketing. AI isn’t smart, it’s just algorithms producing a facsimile of language via pattern heatmaps. What was Cortana if not just an earlier version of the same thing?

““AI”” is all a techbro marketing bubble. Will burst and move on eventually.

Like holy shit we had the autofill feature in Photoshop ages and ages ago and that’s just doing what the “intelligent” image generators do. We didn’t call it AI back then. All marketing for what amounts to just some interesting algorithms.

space_comrade,

Chatgpt is just Cortana with better marketing. AI isn’t smart, it’s just algorithms producing a facsimile of language via pattern heatmaps. What was Cortana if not just an earlier version of the same thing?

Well no, not really IMO. Cortana as far as I know wasn’t based on LLMs as we know them today, it was a way older method of NLP. You’re right that on a high level it’s pretty similar but the underlying technology is qualitatively different IMO.

JuryNullification,

The next AI winter can’t come soon enough

Subverb,

I’m happy as a clam with my 1984 loud as fuck IBM Model M keyboard in Windows.

Think you need a Windows key? CTRL-ESC. I use CTRL-ESC even on modern keyboards.

possiblylinux127,

That’s a pretty cool keyboard

Subverb,

I bought mine here but there are other places that restore them.

lemonuri,

Best keyboard ever, will also last forever.

I use capslock as superkey.

Subverb,

I actually use caps lock fairly regularly as a embedded systems programmer. With my large hands CTRL-ESC is pretty easy for me.

ColdWater,
@ColdWater@lemmy.ca avatar

Everyone talking it’s bad but I think it’s not, I mean you got another key for shortcut to anything you want after uninstall that crap it’s useless anyway

Anti_Face_Weapon,

Yeah. It’s stupid and crummy, but it’s a new key to bind. But then again, have you ever really used the context menu key? I have not.

ColdWater,
@ColdWater@lemmy.ca avatar

True, I rarely use it when my mouse decided to crap itself

Elderos,

Context menu key is kinda essential for navigating without a mouse. I don’t use it all that often but I am very glad it is there.

Aurenkin,

Can they just make the copilot shortcut on my taskbar permanently fuck off? It appears erratically and I don’t seem to be able to get rid of it when it’s there.

nik282000,
@nik282000@lemmy.ca avatar
Aurenkin,

I dual boot PopOS which has been great. Only use Windows for a couple of games that don’t work well with proton.

nik282000,
@nik282000@lemmy.ca avatar

F. I still have a W10 drive for VR games.

humanplayer2,
@humanplayer2@lemmy.ml avatar

Immerge more! Hide the task bar, use only desktop icons to launch your games.

theshatterstone54,

Use CTT’s winutil. I’m guessing it can get rid of that (and also telemetry and it makes updates less annoying and gives you a Ninite-like way to easily install a bunch of software and apply a bunch of tweaks etc.)

NotSoCoolWhip,

Right click taskbar.

Taskbar settings

Turn off copilot

lvxferre,
@lvxferre@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh “great”, more crap between Ctrl and Alt.

[Grumpy grandpa] In my times, the space row only had five keys! And we did more than those youngsters do with eight, now nine keys!

giloronfoo,

From the picture, it’s just the context menu key with a new key cap.

lvxferre,
@lvxferre@lemmy.ml avatar

Aaaaah. I really, really wanted to complain about the excessive amount of keys.

(My comment above is partially a joke - don’t take it too seriously. Even if a new key was added it would be a bit more clutter, but not that big of a deal.)

lolcatnip,

That’s still a new key for some people. My laptop doesn’t have a context key, for example.

ipsirc,
@ipsirc@lemmy.ml avatar

In my time it was also nine. Back to the roots. ;->

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard

GraniteM,
porl,

Why doesn’t my keyboard have a thumbs-up key?!

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