I do agree on the whole, It’s the next phase of automation. The real problem stems from the fact that we hold onto the system where a tiny handful of people get the full benefit of the productivity, while the others are paid in time incriments which value goes down with demand, so as more jobs are automated or assisted (to allow more work with less people), supply demand devalues the labor.
This is why I support worker ownership and cooperatives rather than corporate ownership. I think we need to shift towards a Mutualist economy rather than a Capitalist one.
It’s not about using it for bad deeds as any other tool like a kitchen knife can be used the same way. It’s more to the necessity to work in order to live.
No. It stems from closed source software. True, however, that stems from capitalism. Without that we’d be good friends with AI and fix all the obvious problems we caused. Then do like Bill Hicks said and explore space.
Open source AI can still be problematic under capitalism. It can still be developed to disproportionally favor the ruling class and used to disproportionally benefit them
Making it FOSS wouldn’t solve the problem, because FOSS tools can still be used by capitalists to displace workers and erode worker bargaining power.
This is true of pretty much EVERY tool, but never has a tool had the potential to negatively impact so many in such a diversity of roles.
So again, the problem isn’t closed source, the problem is capitalism. If you fixed the problems of capitalism, then all software tools would naturally be FOSS, but that’s a product of fixing the problems, not the mechanism to fix the problems.
FOSS can certainly be used to create that which can fix capitalist issues. I’m just done talking to you about it. You’re adamant against shit and I’m not interested in a fight.
Lol does such vacuous psudointelligent talk get you much success in your circles?
I am adamant against capitalism, and I’m pro-FOSS. but I’m not delusional about the ability of FOSS to fix capitalist issues, I’m pro-FOSS because it’s a more-ethical way to make software.
You read like a teenager who just learned about FOSS and think it’s going to change the world all by itself.
I’ve been doing this a decade and a half now. I have the experience of idiots discussing this issue with zero awareness or even more likely, a tangentially opposite direction I expect is nothing less than a three letter spam lie.
By “this” you’ve been doing FOSS for a decade and a half? And yet you’re unable to provide even a hint of a shred of evidence that FOSS would meaningfully solve or even alleviate the issues with modern capitalism? Paint me skeptical.
I haven’t been working on FOSS projects the whole time, but I’ve been doing software development for over 15 years, not including my time in university, so I’m not unfamiliar with the subject.
The burden of proof is on you. You’re the one making the claim, and I’ve also mentioned the patently obvious fact that capitalists use FOSS products to “improve efficiency” (reduce headcount) just to get the ball rolling.
Unable =/= Unwilling to discuss with someone unworthy of speaking to even a minute. You have, thus far, made it past that but I’m not at a moment I’m able to sit down and more thoroughly explain anything let alone diverge into extensive details
…capitalists use FOSS products…
You’re not wrong. I’ll give you that. I will not argue with your stance against capitalism. In fact, I stand with you, entirely. FOSS does not hold a stance against capitalism. It can be used by capitalism. However, Anarchy cannot function without FOSS in any digital fashion. Neither can any Revolution or, by a much better success, a Guillotine.
At the end of the day, any respect given to any Closed Source software is only a literal Suicide. You don’t know shit for running Closed Source software. It may not kill you. It will probably just steal all your money. And the shit will pull it off by your knowledge and consent without accommodating your blatant lack of understanding. In the near future, it will arrange your inevitable death. Choice will be largely irrelevant to such events too boot.
At the end of the day. FOSS is the only solution because the opposite is that you consent to using software that no one but one mother fucker knows what does. End of Story. Inevitable EOTW.
I feel like we mostly agree with each other, we just don’t agree about the extent to which FOSS is helpful.
I agree, although perhaps less dramatically, that closed source is harmful, and that you can’t trust it. I agree that FOSS makes trusting software easier (although not trivial, critical vulns can still exist for years), and FOSS helps democratize whatever the software is used for (although in the current capitalist hellscape, software tooling is a relatively small hurdle).
To me, you don’t need FOSS to build a (literal) guillotine, and you don’t need FOSS to spread flyers. It’s not necessary for a revolution, and recent history seems to show it doesn’t really move us closer to a revolution. I don’t understand the basis for your claims otherwise. Communication benefits from software, and FOSS means that we can trust our tools of communication more, but in the end we still largely depend on ISPs and corporate hardware. People don’t have open source hardware phones, running mobile distros of Linux, loaded with radical app repos, running a massive adhoc p2p communication network.
I see FOSS as a goal. I want to live in a world where FOSS is the natural state of things, collaborating instead of competing. That is the end state I want to achieve, but it is not itself the solution for achieving that state.
FOSS is the solution (in microcosm) in the sense that it is a good replacement for capitalism, but not the solution in the sense of doing the work to achieve the end goal.
I feel like we mostly agree with each other, we just don’t agree about the extent to which FOSS is helpful.
FOSS is a tool. Tools are useful, not helpful. People can be helpful. Especially with the right tools.
(although not trivial, critical vulns can still exist for years)
Because the amount of participants are trivial. If people took FOSS seriously and stopped paying billions of dollars to CS…
To me, you don’t need FOSS to build a (literal) guillotine, and you don’t need FOSS to spread flyers.
If you’re using software to do just that, then I’m saying that you’re wrong. If you’re using physical fashions like crafting a club and having a fight with people who agree…
People don’t have open source hardware phones, running mobile distros of Linux
I do.
but not the solution in the sense of doing the work to achieve the end goal
Well, I AM saying what Richard Stallman has rouhgly in an extended elaborate fashion of much more profuse explanations and statements, that FOSS is necessary to stop CS from being respected let alone relevant to fucking anything digital based on an agreement towards respect for another human’s life without knowing that person. Without needing to know anyone to make that statement. Even I agree with him regarding the subject to which respect is given to people I have the opposite of respect in history denoting such appropriate.
If you’re using software to do just that, then I’m saying that you’re wrong.
My point was that you don’t need to use software to do just that.
I do
You’re not most people. You’re not even most anti-capitalists or revolutionaries. It’s important to stay grounded in the reality of meeting people where they’re at. If you’re expecting your revolution to be populated by tech savvy people, I’ve got some bad news to break to you.
relevant to fucking anything digital based on an agreement towards respect for another human’s life without knowing that person
I agree, that’s why FOSS is the ethical choice. But that doesn’t get us closer to a revolution. If I understood your last paragraph, it was a bit hard to follow.
My point was that you don’t need to use software to do just that.
And my point is using the reference as a metaphor for something I’m not willing to discuss in this environment. I’m waiitng for SAFENetwork to build a sustainable environment to build a proper revolution.
I’ve got some bad news to break to you.
There will never be a meaingful awareness of this shit and everyone will die because bio-/tech/etc.- virus/baked planet/pollution/AI/etc.?
I know that already. My project is to figure out how to get people to learn what is necessary to survive.
Guess what? Everyone will die. In less than a decade. Guaren-fucking-teed.
Revolution is pretty much irrelevant because this will happen either way. It doesn’t fucking matter.
Counterpoint that be only one I’ve thought of or heard of. FOSS-AI can counter and crack all Closed Source AI and pretty much all personal computers with helpful virus infections that rebuild the target to GNU/Linux.
Whatever. It don’t matter. Either way I’ll find my soul a whole damn new galaxy cuz I ain’t comin’ back here.
Xucking anyone. Doesn’t really matter. People don’t shut the fuck up about it and I’ve never heard anyone say what I did that math on and observed myself occurring relentlessly. I don’t give a shit about what you think it is and I ain’t here to lecture anyone or argue. It is what it is.
That’s a view I have for many things. The desire and possibility of, getting more money always distorts and corrupts. It makes pretty much everything worse by rewarding deception, externalised waste, and exploitation.
One of the most interesting parts of that gap is the one day battle he fights in against Egypt right after Troy falls where he’s captured until seven years later someone shows up who tries to ransom him to Libya.
Why?
Because an event like this really happened.
In the 5th year of Merneptah there’s a single day battle between Egypt and allied forces of Libyans and sea peoples, at least one of which is commonly thought to have been pre-Greek (the Ekwesh), and Egypt is successful capturing many prisoners of war.
Exactly seven years later Egypt is overthrown by an usurper Pharoh, with the following dynasty writing that it had been overthrown with the help of outside forces.
While there was likely no ‘Odysseus’ involved, it’s a useful reminder that sometimes there’s historical accuracy buried inside mythology.
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