The Extended Cut version of the first movie is actually an okay time. It boggles the mind anyone would think it’s a good idea to pull every bit of backstory and subplot and give us the mess of a theatrical version we got.
That’s the beauty of the Suicide Squad, they die or escape or there are other teams, so they can wipe out the whole cast without hesitation because it fits into the plot constraints.
Bad writing for film and television really irks me because of how avoidable it is. I’m not talking about mediocre or lackluster writing, but the actual bad writing.
TV shows and movies are tremendously expensive to make. Every part of it costs a fortune except for one: the writing. Even if a studio or production company was paying for a whole team of writers to work full time it’s still only a fraction of the cost of paying film crews, actors, editors, and VFX artists.
Given the relatively lower expense, relative lack of time constraints, and enormous importance of the script to the overall quality of the product it absolutely boggles my mind that production companies consistently fuck up the writing process.
My pet theory is that this is because of the assembly line way of thinking of studios. Script -> Casting -> Shooting -> VFX -> Editing -> Profit.
It takes time to develop a good idea and script. If you force a writer to adhere to a strict schedule you’ll get a rush job and bad writing. As long as money keeps flowing in, their assembly line theory is validated.
It’s like reading a news article and seeing horribly constructed sentences and typos. Like, this is your main job! I know there are a lot of English majors out there who would love to find work.
At least for some of those there’s an excuse of needing to get the news out ASAP, but there’s no reason an in depth piece or an online article that’s been up for a few days should be butchered.
Really though writing should be the least important part of a journalists job, digging through stories and finding the truth or understanding the complex strands of the story should be and that often involves going back and editing, restructuring, reediting, reworking and adding to it over and over again.
It gets really hard to see your writing with fresh eyes once you’ve got it so perfectly constructed in your head, it’s super easy to miss awkward mistakes that have crept in - this is why editors were a thing but newspapers rarely bother anymore or the editor is too focused on political and social acceptable to notice grammar or word choice errors
I’m sure there’s plenty of those making a mess of things, but taking time in the writing process, getting input from relevant parties, and doing as much preparation as possible cuts out a myriad of problems.
Studio got a product placement deal? Great, let’s integrate that into the story long before filming even begins so it feels natural.
Director doesn’t know if he wants plot point A to happen or not? Good thing he heard about that while the movie was just a script instead of having him decide with dozens of people on set.
I’m sure there are uncontrollable, unforeseeable problems that will come up in any production. There is no reason to exacerbate those by being willfully unprepared. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure but it seems like film studios reliably hamper the “prevention” part to shave a few weeks off on prep time and end up losing more time or huge piles of money because of it.
i wouldn’t be surprised if a big part of it is that the higher ups don’t know much about what good writing actually is, or they’re too focused on ratings and they don’t dare deviate from “what works”. it also wouldn’t surprise me if writers weren’t allowed to make “major” changes to scripts after seeing how the writing looks after scenes have been recorded, because it might be “too expensive to change”.
It’s crazy cause if you hear writers in tv talk about it, they’ll get contracted like a month or two before they have to finish the first batch of scripts. Writing in Hollywood is as much about learning quick writing shortcuts/tropes to move the plot along to get the product out on time as it is being able to develop a plot.
That’s what sticks in my craw. If I’m a studio exec who’s going to invest potentially hundreds of millions of dollars it’s beyond stupid to jeopardize that to get a payout a little faster.
It just seems stupid to put a time crunch on the most important phase of your investment. I don’t see how taking a greater risk of a project being a flop is worth getting the script a few weeks sooner.
I think a lot is because Hollywood became a Henry Ford production process, one part feeds into the next so they’d have empty studios and workers idle if the next idea isn’t ready to go.
Also it literally doesn’t matter, this marvel film has literally the same plot and jokes as the last one? That’s ok we cooked up a drama where we pretend villainous gamers are against it to get people talking about it, we seeded stories into the media we own about it and forced our celebrities to pretend to love it…
They can make the absolute worst shit and as long as they link it to something vaguely related to some culturally significant thing it’ll be huge, even more so if they can link it to a social divide or political division they have no intention of ever actually caring about.
Childhood toy + social flag = money, it works for comic books ‘i had a the flash t-shirt when I was six I have to like these new films’, it worked with Barbie ‘this proconsumerism corporate tat which was heavily criticised by notable feminists has made a film attempting to shoehorn social progress back into a corporate friendly sales generating mush, they say the baddies don’t like it so I have to go see it!’, and it works with endless sequels ‘this franchise now makes zero sense, has the most painfully predictable plots, has gone so far off the rails jumping sharks that literally nothing makes sense and there are zero stakes to any of it which totally ruins everything that made the first one good…’ and you can’t even tell what I’m talking about with that because it’s everything (i was thinking john wick btw)
Make something actually good and no one will care unless the media circus tells them to, that’s how you get s flop. Make something even slightly changing intellectually or from a certain point of view and instantly most your audience is gone or angry, but be like Barbie and put sparkle on social concepts 90% of the world has agreed on for decades while actively avoiding anything more contentious then you don’t need to worry about alienating the audience or going over their heads.
And for some reason people just won’t stop watching it, they won’t watch indy stuff made with passion or small budget things no matter how good they are because they HAVE to see the big releases, like you’ll lose touch with society and be unable to make friends if you don’t force yourself to endure at least a dozen painfully dull industry movies a year.
Basically movies that cost almost nothing to make and use great writing to build up the world. Our minds are really good and fleshing out the rest as long as their given good writing as a foundation. Productions could save a lot of money with good writing. It blows my mind you could sink $200 million dollars into a project and not have an absolutely flawless script.
I never said they’re mutually exclusive. There’s tons of big budget explosion movies that have great scripts. Dark Knight, Casino Royale, Matrix, The Bourne movies, Heat. The best movies have legs and continue to sell for years after release, exploding sun only gets you a good opening weekend.
It’s completely beyond me why scripts get rushed out the door before they’re at the very least solid. Sure, a production company might make their money just a little bit sooner but they run a massive risk of losing all of their money making a movie that completely bombs.
It’s impossible for every script to be a masterwork, but holy crap it seems like an audience wanting a competent script is too much to ask. It’s not like there’s a shortage of aspiring writers that can take a crack at a script until it’s at least passable.
Because writing doesn’t really work like that, the reason we get bland writing is because they keep adding extra chefs.
Thay get these professional writers that learned formula in school and apply it to sections of someone else’s work and wonder why the result is an ugly tapestry of formulaic rubbish.
All the things people love are written by people with passion for the project, then they get a budget increase and professional industry writers get brought in and it’s all shitty generic snappy dialog and dramatic posing that feels uncomfortable and awkward in the scene.
DC’s direct to video animation department consistently puts out absolute bangers, so that’s not surprising. It’s the live action stuff where they continuously drop the ball.
Yeah I hesitantly tried out Andor as somebody who isnt the biggest Star Wars junkie, and it quickly flew to being my favourite Star Wars content by a mile. Really excellent writing imo
The word Fascism was coined be Mussolini because it was a reference to the Roman Empire. Fascism is often about restoring past Empires.
Luke tried (and succeeded) to bring his father back from the dark side.
Rey does not attempt to ring her grandfather back from the dark side. Why not? because he’s dead. You can redeem your family but you can’t redeem your ancestors because they’re dead. You also can’t confront your ancestors, but science fiction allows characters to do things that aren’t possible to do in the real world.
Rey confronts her evil ancestor and rejects him. Takes on a different name, She understands her ancestor doesn’t define who she is.
Children in school right now learning about what their evil ancestors did, what should they do? Take their side? Or realize like Rey did that they don’t have to identify with what their ancestors did. You can identify with the good people from the past even if you aren’t related to them.
Fascism relies on wanting the things that your ancestors had. Reject that idea and you reject fascism.
Also if you’ve ever seen a statue of some evil dude being removed, you will see a reproduction of an evil person that died a long time ago being moved around on a crane.
The problem with RoS isn’t that it didn’t do anything interesting, it’s just it didn’t tell you that it was doing interesting things. So people would know what to post on twitter immediately after watching the movie.
TLJ has the appearance of an interesting movie but actually did nothing. RoS tried to appear like a dumb action movie while actually doing interesting things.
And I didn’t even go into the layer about the grieving process, but that’s obvious isn’t it? Movie starts with a guy literally denying death and ends on Chewie inheriting Hans’s medal and Rey burying the lightsabers. The Sequel Trilogy was about death after all, so it’s obvious the last movie had a layer about the grieving process… right? RIGHT?
The look on Oscar Isaac’s face as he delivers that line is something else.
It’s the face of a man who has been back and forth with the scriptwriter and director all day, and is resigned to the fact that this is the best they can come up with.
Even the writers didn’t seem to know. It was like they’d been handed some weird madlibs type shit and had to work Palpatine back in, even though the previous two movies hadn’t alluded to that in the slightest.
Even the groans from the rebels sound like “Jesus, three movies for this shit?”
If you look at Alan Rickman saying “By Grabthar’s Hammer, what a savings” and Oscar saying this, it’s the same pained expression, but only Rickman was acting.
Poe doesn’t know or care why fascism returned, he just knows he’s going to fight against it.
The hot take internet culture rejected the movie simply because people don’t have the capability of understanding the layers and interpreting anything. It’s a shame really it’s the most interesting of all the Star Wars movies (though not the best, the editing was janky as hell). But people are more interested in consuming nitpicky memes about Star Wars than watching an actual Star Wars movie.
But it’s a movie that provided petty nitpicky assholes on the internet many hours of entertainment repeating the same false memes that only indicate that they didn’t actually watch the movie. You got what you wanted, so you should appreciate JJ Abrams for satisfying your cynical and petty nature with all the negative memes you’re still repeating over four years later.
I’ll just be over here enjoying a Star Wars movie that has layers about the relationship between our connection to our ancestors and fascist movements, the grieving process, and still isn’t so overly serious to not have a layer with the Emperor blasting lightning bolts at X-Wings.
I liked the hazbin hotel pilot, but very much felt how you do about the helluva boss pilot. I thought hazbin was fun and quirky and I liked it a fair bit, helluva boss cranked up the edginess and immaturity but didn’t bring anything else that made up for it. Maybe the actual series is better Idk
Much less clever and subtle. I would call that a pretty low bar, honestly. Helluva Boss also has a lot of poorly-written content IMO, but in Hazbin it’s nonstop bad writing until there’s a small glimpse of something competent. I would recommend Helluva Boss to anyone who likes shitposts and sitcoms, but I wouldn’t recommend Hazbin to anyone right now.
‘Fables’ was a comic book that was the first to use the idea of characters from fairy tales living in the modern era. When people realized that everything was already public domaine we got two shows, neither as good as the comic.
It was created by some of the same people who made Lost. Both shows relied heavily on flashbacks to make the shows seem more planned out. Both relied on inconsistent mythologies to fake worldbuilding.
How many times can you use amnesia in a show with seven seasons? How many times can you reveal that Character A is secretly related to Character B? How many times can someone get killed but then miraculously get better? How many times can you introduce absolutely world-breaking plot devices, only to forget about them immediately?
The answer for all of the above, for Once Upon a Time, is THERE’S NO FUCKING UPPER LIMIT.
It did have this absolutely fantastic exchange though…
Grumpy: We’re all going to go hang out with Happy.
Snow White: Didn’t he get turned into a tree?
Grumpy: Yeah, but we fixed that months ago! We do things when you’re not around!
If you like the concept of Upside Down, you might be interested in the anime movie Patema Inverted. It has the same premise and came out around the same time.
It’s a little different. The Upside Down in Stranger Things is a kind of alternate dimension, whereas in the movies Upside Down and Patema Inverted it’s that gravity is reversed for some people.
I went into it expecting it to have nothing to do with the books. I found all the characters’ behaviors irrational and frustrating, with the exception of the emperor.
And I’m getting really sick of incompetent protagonists and impossibly flawless antagonists. I think that’s just a reflection of the zeitgeist of the world’s masses, but that’s another discussion. Suffice to say I’m tired of it being the only trope used in SciFi TV anymore.
My conspiracy theory is that the writers had an idea for their own show, but execs made them slap on the Foundation label for notoriety. Because the parts that aren’t in the books, like the Genetic Dynasty, are great – probably the best parts. It feels like that was the actual story here, then everything else had to be put in after the fact to justify the universe they put it in.
I stopped watching after season 1 because the “special powers held by individuals” angle felt like a slap in the face to the theme of the books. Apparently season 2 is better but I’m still a lil bitter so I don’t think I can do it lol
This is brilliant, and it would explain so much! And I agree that the most interesting story arch is the one that has nothing to do with the novels (and the entire show shared very little with the novels, outside of some names).
I said that I liked few of the characters; I don’t know if that improves after the first season, but like you, I’m traumatized enough by S1 to be uninterested in watcing S2. I realized I’d spent the last 3 episodes literally shouting at the TV because of characters being so unreasonably stupid, and if there’s a literary sin I can’t forgive it’s characters doing stupid things as a plot device. “We need tension in this scene, so we’ll have this character refuse to get in the escape pod until the last minute, for some trivial reason.” It is infuriating, sloppy, weak writing, and I refuse to watch it.
Haha, have you read the books? It is a million times worse / more pretentious. The show was camp, which was at least kinda fun. Definitely an improvement anyway
The show where they have to sex each other in super sexy horny sex to cast some spell. Yeah sex magic wooo!! And what does the spell do? It just creates a column of light that some guy can use as a beacon to navigate.
My eyes rolled so hard I saw the back of my own skull.
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