i hope someday we construct a collider that spans the entire circumference of the earth. But we’d probably have to build one that spans the circumference of the moon first, and then maybe mars, since the oceans are going to be a bit of a doozie to work around that we don’t have the technology for, whereas the interior of a collider is supposed to be evacuated, so, the moon almost kinda already handles that for us. heat might be an issue of course, but if we can figure out thermal radiator panels that can dump the heat straight into space, maybe we could pull it off…
mars would address the heat issues, but those dust storms are no joke and the dust itself is microscopic toxic/caustic razors and it’ll try to get in everywhere and ruin fine instruments it touches. Moon dust is also really bad but there’s no wind to kick it up on the moon obviously…
but damn. DAMN. imagine the fucking science we could get done with a LUNAR-SCALE PARTICLE COLLIDER!!!
Hear me out okay. hits blunt Dyson ring. Maybe we start building it out between earth and Mars. We dig a big ass hole into Mars core and use some kind of laser technology to focus radiation into it perhaps “jump starting” the core. Or maybe we use some kind of cable and gymbal system to run a hard wire into it. hits bluntThen meanwhile we’re crashing comets and shit into it to get us some oceans and atmosphere, badabing badaboom we got earth 2.0
Well check this out: if it’s big enough and can collect enough solar energy, it can be a self-powered gargantuan electromagnet and CREATE a magnetosphere for Mars itself. And the moon has a higher silver content than earth, which a) won’t tarnish in the vacuum of space and b) is more conductive than copper or gold!
Aluminum alloy structures, silver circuitry, we could build this thing without sending ANY of it’s raw materials from earth. It’s all already up there waiting for us… … Some assembly required :p
There’s probably opportunity to do some really large colliders in space, for much cheaper than on any celestial body.
But then, people are having a really hard time imagining the fucking science we could get done with a lunar-scale particle collider. That’s why the merely 100km one isn’t getting any money.
The Moon’s daytime is half a month long and can reach 120 C so we’d need some pretty powerful heat shielding. And there’s no ozone layer to protect the electronics from radiation, and I’m pretty sure the Moon orbits outside of Earth’s magnetosphere. And the shielding used for such a project could also be used to fix climate change here (and terraform Venus later) with orbital parasols. And whatever unimaginable technology we’d need for such an ambitious project may as well be used to run a grid of electromagnets and power lines across Mars to give it a magnetic field
Most proposals for moon colonies are either built underground or covered up with a thick layer of regolith for both of the reasons you mentioned. It’s very likely a collider would also be built underground for the same reasons. Digging a many-miles-long tunnel on the moon with the awful properties of moon regolith to deal with would have its own set of challenges though.
Yeah. I hear NASA and India are planning to send 3d-printer robots to lava caves to seal them off, cover/get rid of all moon dust and build permanent bases there (but as of now the priority seems to be researching the polar water-ice and using moon rocks to study what the early solar system’s geology was like)
Now I’m imagining placing a ring of gigantic dyson-sphere powered magnets in an intergalactic void to create the final and ultimate supercollider, the size of a galactic supercluster
that would legitimately be so fucking cool, but I think at those scales we’re actually encroaching on things that truly are physically impossible. If it takes light entire geological eras to move through such a system, any hope of maintaining physical integrity throughout its length is … exceedingly unlikely. Like, at ranges THAT vast, pretty sure the expansion of spacetime itself would rip it open…
Does it actually have to maintain physical integrity as a single structure? If it’s not got a vacuum chamber due to relying on the ambient vacuum, then each section of magnets need not physically touch, so the individual components need only use some of the energy from their power source to actively steer themselves into formation rather than rely on material strength to hold together.
At the energies involved, it’s akin to a bacteria interfering with a supersonic goods train. The only bit that needs shielding is the detector systems, and that’s not THAT hard to do in space. At least if you’re at the point of building a space based accelerator.
Fun fact, they were going to build one in the US crossing the borders of LA, TX, AR. They even dug out the damn hole, but they shit canned the whole project so now we’re just left with a random giant circular hole underground.
Edited AK to AR. That would have been a bit excessive.
Alas, I don’t think he will much care to build a subway-but-shitty between one farm outside Waxahachie, TX, to another farm outside of Waxahachie, TX. Not enough density of mouthbreathing Elon stans there.
Thanks for clearing that up, I thought I was finished or near completion. Glad they decided to stop production when they did but sucks that we didn’t get it.
Zounds, a collider over 3000 miles wide would have been quite the achievement! Here’s hoping they get back to it; that’s gotta be worth a ton of science points.
Sure, yes, but my point was that we don’t have evidence specifically for the existence of dark matter.
We have evidence that is not explained by visible, detectable mass.
Dark matter is the current favored theory which happens to explain discrepancies between what is observed and what is expected.
But I don’t think we can logically conclude dark matter is the only explanation, which is what your original statement seems to imply. It is the best explanation that we have so far.
If we place objects on the dining table the night before and observed them lying on the floor the next morning, we can’t claim “we have evidence for sleepwalking residents.” There may be another theory that explains it, such as: the cat is knocking the things off the table. We need additional evidence to determine which theory fits or else come up with a new theory.
But it is visible, it’s visible in terms of gravitational effects. We can “see” the effects of dark matter. That is evidence specifically for dark matter, i.e. matter that is very hard or impossible to detect via the electromagnetic spectrum but is observable through gravity.
Dark matter is the explanation, the question is more what form does it take.
It just takes a bit of acknowledgement that actually the EM spectrum is not the only way to view the universe. In fact it’s just one of four (maybe five) fundamental forces. We’re just used to that being the default for seeing because it’s how we physically see. It’s an anthropocentric bias to say something doesn’t exist because we can’t view it via EM radiation despite the fact gravity is clearly showing it to us.
You could use your logic to argue against the existence of black holes. We don’t see them by definition but they are most certainly there.
“In astronomy, dark matter is a hypothetical form of matter that appears to not interact with light or the electromagnetic field. Dark matter is implied by gravitational effects which cannot be explained by general relativity unless more matter is present than can be seen,…”
Unless you’re aware of some case where dark matter has interacted with light or EM fields?
So we see these gravitational effects that either means general relativity falls apart under conditions we have yet to identify or there is more mass than we can detect with the EM spectrum.
I’m not arguing against the existence of dark matter. You’re misunderstanding my intent.
I’m not even arguing. I’m just pointing out that your original statement isn’t quite correct.
But Dark Matter is a great scientific theory. It probably will hold up. I can’t wait to see what we learn next!
Anyway I probably shouldn’t have even responded because it doesn’t matter in the big scheme of things and my thumbs are tired from arguing against bigoted assholes in other places (I’m on a phone) so… peace
I would argue that Wikipedia is wrong or misguided. There is no serious debate about whether or not dark matter exists. I also think you’ve completely missed the point of my argument regarding the EM field just being only one way to detect the existence of things.
We have gravitational evidence. We can only ever infer the existence of anything. An example of this is we didn’t actually see the Higgs Boson we just deduced it’s existence from the cascade of interactions that happens when particles collide. Similarly we can deduce from the gravitational evidence that dark matter exists.
When you admit that night time doesn’t exist simply because you’re not there to observe it while you sleep. We know somethings there. We know there’s matter that isn’t adding up. We just don’t know what it is.
Easy. When scientists come up with a verifiable theory that explains observed gravitational effects in the universe that can’t be explained by general relativity, given visible matter.
While we haven’t detected dark matter in a lab, it isn’t on the same level as a metaphysical soul.
I’m not aware of any physical phenomena for which a soul is the best theory currently available.
Whereas dark matter is the best theory so far to explain observed gravitational effects^1 that cannot be explained by general relativity and detectable matter alone. Yes, it may be due to something else (other theories exist and maybe someone will come up with another better one).
1 includes: “formation and evolution of galaxies,[1] gravitational lensing,[2] observable universe’s current structure, mass position in galactic collisions,[3] motion of galaxies within galaxy clusters, and cosmic microwave background anisotropies.” - wikipedia
That’d be a valid comparison, if there were any evidence of a soul existing. The effects of matter, on the other hand, are clearly visible - or invisible, in the case of dark matter.
Yes but at the same time we used to have all the evidence in the world indicate that planet Vulcan was just behind the sun, and then it turned out that no it wasn’t. If Dark Matter can’t be found no matter what experiment we do. Then maybe we are mistaken about its existence
Just because something seemingly doesn’t interact with EM fields doesn’t mean it isn’t there, it’s just something that only really interacts with the rest of the universe on a gravitational level.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Can make it as big as you want and no need to dig out the earth. Just a few “acceleration rings” and then the detector. I guess if it were feasible right now we’d be doing that though.
Everyone underestimates how HEAVY the collider is, how often sensor modules need to be changed and mainly that the ring is just one part of the entire group of big buildings you need for this.
You need to create different beams of different makeup from different sources, different loops to make the beam hit sonething and maybe return the products into the loop, you need extensive sensory equipment where the collision happens and different sensors for different experiments.
It is just SOOOO much cheaper, easier and better to build it underground instead of in space.
But look how fast we can make those little fuckers go!
It’s just like slot car racing, round and round, but… you know… faster. And yeah, it’s more expensive than a regular slot car track, I guess. But still, those particles will beat any slot car you care to pick! So there’s that. Welllll not those fancy slot cars with them high performance motors, I mean, that’s a completely different ballgame there, we can’t compete with that.
But still, those particles whizzing around, it’s gonna be pretty cool. I reckon we should do it.
So anyway, thank you for reading my financial proposal for the SuperLHC.
Imagine if only 1/10 of all countries GDP gouvernement spending went to scientists and the patent bullshit didn’t exist ? We’d be mining asteroids and sipping coffee on Mars.
Venus would take longer, but would be vastly easier to terraform to a habitable world. The atmosphere should be able to be transformed into an earth like atmosphere by dumping a few comets and some bacteria in. Might take the bacteria a few thousand years, but they did it here in Earth caused the first mass extinction.
We might wanna check to see if any bacteria exist on Venus first, but honestly if there are, they haven’t made the evolutionary jump in the last 4 billion years, so I doubt it will happen just cause we add the necessary water.
While we are at it, we may as well solve the dark forest problem, turn the solar system into a massive spaceship, and extend the life of our sun, by turning Mercury into a solar thruster/ star lifter.
I’m partial to the idea of converting Mercury into a star lifter / thruster / planetary shade. Blocking sunlight to Venus would cause the atmosphere to cool, then freeze and fall as snow. Then you can disassemble Venus too for more raw material. That’s a massive store of carbon, oxygen, and sulfur. Solar powered mass drivers operating out of a planetary vacuum cut costs of launching material into space.
People often object to the idea because we can’t afford it, it’s too difficult, or out of concern for preserving those planets. Yeah, we won’t be doing all that. It will be our descendants in the far future. A task for new civilizations, over eons. Discovering life on Mercury and Venus is a long shot. But if it is there, it’s doomed without human intervention. Convert those two planets to Dyson swarm, and they’ll have matter for countless orbital habitats, not just for whoever humans evolve into, but for nature preserves too.
Don’t disassemble Venus. That planet is far too easy to terraform. Disassemble Mars, asteroids, and the various otherwise useless moons, comets, asteroids, and proto-planets in the heliosphere
Well, I understand the argument for terraforming, and I’d bet good money we will terraform it long before disassembly, but I’m more of an O’Neil Cylinder / Dyson Swarm kind of guy. I prefer the idea of overwhelming surface area via orbital habitats rather than colonizing gravity wells. I also don’t trust Venus not to catastrophically resurface itself and refill the atmosphere with CO2 and sulphuric acid in a mass volcanic event.
Long term, but far too soon the Sun will expand into a red giant and devour Mercury, Venus, and likely Earth as well. If it’s possible to employ a Dyson Swarm to lift material from a star to reduce its mass, then it may be feasible to prevent or mitigate the red giant phase to preserve Earth and extend its habitability, perhaps indefinitely. If preserving the birthplace of known life seems more important than building a copy in a more precarious orbit, then we ought to sacrifice that copy to expand the Dyson Swarm and mine the Sun faster. Mercury first though. We’ve got time. Mars can probably go too.
Oh yes, and if the notion of slowly altering Earth’s orbit by tossing asteroids past us ever needs to happen, then surely rapid firing 2 or 3 planets worth of material across our bow ought to get the job done much faster.
Considering the eons involved with stripping both inward planets down to the last bucketful though, I’m certainly in favor of a few millennia to fully explore and research them both beforehand.
I’m not seeing why the same couldn’t be said for Mars, drop some mold spores and water bears down there, maybe some photosynthetic bacteria, slowly build a blanket of CO2 to warm the planet, melt/release the water from the surface, a thousand years gives a habitable planet, no asteroid steering required.
Mars is roughly a single order of magnitude larger than The Moon, in mass. The Earth is roughly 81 times the mass of The Moon. Mars doesn’t have a magnetic field protecting it, and can’t unless we add a significant amount of metals, and mass to the planet. It also doesn’t have an atmosphere due to the two previous facts.
Meanwhile, Venus is roughly the size of The Earth at a scale of 4.8673 : 5.97222. It doesn’t have enough water though. It also doesn’t have a large iron core to create a magnetic field to protect the inhabitants. However, we could re-route several comets fairly easily to impact Venus giving it a small amount of mass, but also all the water that is needed to start the bacteria creating a Nitrogen rich atmosphere that has a large percentage of Oxygen, turning Venus into a tropical planet that will lose its atmosphere in a few billion years. To counteract this, as we throw 20-30 comets at Venus, we should also throw 100-200 Iron rich asteroids at Venus so that they will be absorbed into the molten core and form a magnetic field for Venus.
Now we have 2 Earth-like planets in a few hundred to thousand years.
To create such a gravitational well on Mars, so that we aren’t constantly losing both our normal skeletural muscles, but also more importantly, our organ muscles, you would have to create a stable black hole in the core of Mars, or you would have to bombard Mars, and its pathetic moons, with millions of asteroids.
To create a long term naturally stable, new earth, Venus is just closer to the masses that we actually need. By dropping just the comets onto Venus you just added a lot of mass, and that gets Venus even closer to being “Earth-like.” We will have to give Venus a comparative moon, but with asteroid mining, and starlifting, that shouldn’t be an issue.
By using Mercury to create a solar thruster, we gain access to unlimited space dust, that will form unlimited asteroids for us, in the Kuiper Belt.
Would be neat if they found a way to only spend like 200 billion a year (the GDP of Hungary and as much as the second biggest military spender) on the people grinder.
I don’t think even a purely defensive military could be that small for the US. We have a lot of coastline on two oceans, plus distant holdings in Alaska and Hawaii. Even discharging Guam and the like would still be a lot of ground and ocean to cover.
My googling says the US spent/185b on the DHS for this year and has 100b for FY2024, which includes the stupid mexico wall. I’m sure there would be more things to deal with not included in that number and it would take time to transition, but any reduction is a positive gain if you ask me.
But we spend nearly $200 billion just paying salaries. We spend the most because we are also an expensive country to live in and that means paying the folks who volunteer a decent wage.
We would have to significantly downsize the military personnel and pretty much operate as homeland defense only.
It’s currently used to monopolize important discoveries and technologies. The Huawei debacle is the biggest proof. No country should be able to control another’s technological advance based on weither they’re friends with them at the moment or not. Also, it’s not like big tech stealing from small/medium enterprise never happens. Either they just buy the company or strangle it one way or another to bankrupt it and then buy it for cheap.
You make the patents too easy to get and it fucks the little guy over as the big corps hoover up all the ideas. You make them difficult or impossible to get then that also benefits the big guys over the little guys as they will just steal people’s ideas and produce them for cheaper with their existing infrastructure which creates an even bigger monopoly.
There is a sweet spot that society is trying to reach. It’s imperfect like any system but it’s far far better than having no system.
You’ve not even considered that in order to get a patent granted you have to disclose your invention to the public which stops big corporations hoarding too many trade secrets.
All in all, the idea that patents shouldn’t exist benefits nobody except the large corporations. Say goodbye to start ups growing in size if that is the case.
Just because big tech does these things doesn’t mean we should remove any pretense of rules against it. If they want something a little guy has, they should buy it, not take it for free.
I like to analyze art ( usually alone and in my mind ) so bear with me. His art is Very interesting but it’s always big robot/drone/ megalithique structures in an open field. While I can totally imagine a big robotic mascots rotting away for months after a malfunction, his work more akin to the 50s view of what the future would be but with modern lenses/tech than a plausible future . In the steel vs digital war, the digital won and his work doesn’t show any of it.
That would be too hard, but we can just try and save some money on useless things and if people don’t accept cutting benefits just raise the interest rates, all of them are underwater anyway
Man, that’s just not in the budget. How am I supposed to scratch my need-to-kill-brown-kids itch without the taxpayer money we specifically set aside for this purpose?
What kind of absurd ideas are you gonna come up with next? No more instigating strife in the middle east? Pah! Not on my watch!
Pff the UK is spending that on a 70 mile railway thats going to be slower than the one already there, already spent nearly 2x the projected FCC budget on just 6 miles of the fucking thing.
This initial budget estimate is 44x the 500M initial estimate of the jwst for comparison. Jwst eventually ballooned to 20B, but I’m guessing this would similarly balloon over time as well.
That’s actually surprising that NASA only has 50% more budget than a single particle accelerator, given the huge number of cutting edge projects NASA is working on.
Ate the propaganda, hook line and sinker didn’t you, mate? More likely would be the Russian occupied east Ukraine becoming Russian, truce agreement written early 2022, very few dead. You saw Zelensky postponing elections the other day, because now was not a good time, right? What were we fighting for again? Oh yes, military industrial profits. Go home, Yankee, bomb your own country.
And your proposed solution is… Which? You have one, do You? Like, one that is not copy-pasta from the russians? One that is not propaganda you had for breakfast yourself?
Never heard of diplomacy? These US security experts had a nice idea back in May:
We advocate for a meaningful and genuine commitment to diplomacy, specifically an immediate ceasefire and negotiations without any disqualifying or prohibitive preconditions. Deliberate provocations delivered the Russia-Ukraine War. In the same manner, deliberate diplomacy can end it.
Name a country that changes leaders during a war and i will show you a vassal state. Seems someone has taken more then their fair share of propaganda. But i guess if everyone just surrenders when provoked there would be no dead, ami’right? In that case, Russia best be surrendering already.
How many people has the moon killed? Cuz Russia has killed tens of thousands. They’ve lost on the order of 250k of their own guys, and probably inflicted roughly the same numbers on the AFU.
The moon doesn’t kill old ladies sitting in their apartment.
The problem is a train needs to transport humans, whereas the collider just needs to transport teeny tiny particles and keep a receipt of their arrival.
I do love the image of scientists constructing little half buckyball helmets that they lovingly wrap around a lead atom before yeeting it to .9995% the speed of light
Yea but his boring company isn’t particularly useful for anything other than stymieing public transportation programs by acquiring contracts with cities and then doing nothing with them. Almost like he has an interest in selling more cars than expand public transit… allegedly.
Not even allegedly. I could be wrong but I thought he admitted publicly at one point that was the whole idea behind The Boring Co. It might have even been on Rogan. Anyone remember or have a clip? Jamie, pull that up.
You may not realize this, but the twitter money still exists. The former owners of twitter have it under their mattress right now, why don’t they build a supercollider?
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