variety.com

seaturtle, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

Heh, more of this shit.

Remember, the only reason we can still watch the highly influential 1922 vampire movie Nosferatu today is because some people didn’t destroy all their copies despite a court saying they had to.

DISOBEY DESTRUCTION ORDERS.

COPY ALL THE THINGS.

aubertlone,

Hey this is a pretty interesting story, got a link?

eluvatar,

I didn’t see anything on Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosferatu?wprov=sfla1

waldyrious,

What do you mean? It’s right in the lead section:

Even with several details altered, Stoker’s heirs sued over the adaptation, and a court ruling ordered all copies of the film to be destroyed. However, several prints of Nosferatu survived, and the film came to be regarded as an influential masterpiece of cinema and the horror genre.

vulgarcynic,
@vulgarcynic@sh.itjust.works avatar
aubertlone,

What an interesting read!

Thank you so much. Interesting to hear about Stoker’s widow, and her going to the courts to pursue a copyright claim.

vulgarcynic,
@vulgarcynic@sh.itjust.works avatar

It’s a fascinating story. I often wonder how it would of been perceived at a time when copyright wasn’t in a post Disney world.

frezik,

The author in question here was pretty shitty. He wrote his own sequel to called “Fellowship of the King”, and then sued Amazon and the Tolkien estate saying they stole elements from his book. He lost, and the Tolkien estate countersued.

The guy played stupid games and won stupid prizes.

LemmyKnowsBest,

I can’t help being curious, who are these “Tolkien Estate” people? I want NAMES!

Squizzy,

His son’s I think

frezik,

That’s Christopher, and he died in 2020. Now it’s a few different members of the family plus their attorney.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien_Estate

seaturtle,

Yeah, I read. I don’t have much sympathy for him. He sounds like a jerk.

IMO preserving the content is more important than honoring him (or, for that matter, humiliating him).

NaoPb, (edited )

Some older dutch movies were released as rentals to the theaters that had to be returned after they stopped playing the movie. These copies were all destroyed and re-releases on DVD now look worse than what it looked like in movie theatres.

The good news is that some theatres hung on to some movies.

seaturtle,

Thank goodness. Have those copies resurfaced and gone into the possession of proper archivists and/or research collections?

NaoPb,

I don’t know how many might be still be around, but I know for a couple of movies where they are. I don’t think they have been properly archived and/or converted to digital media yet. I would like to see if there are people in The Netherlands that can do these things and if the current owners of the rolls of film are willing to.

XYZinferno, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

Yeah, the article itself makes me a lot less sympathetic towards the author than the headline would suggest, given he instigated this whole legal dispute on frankly idiotic premises.

Evilsandwichman, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

He tried to take them to court?!

GeekFTW,
@GeekFTW@kbin.social avatar

They were...not smart lol.

bane_killgrind,

Well if they did plagiarize some independent’s fanfiction, and they can get away with that, it really limits the remedies for independent writers when their unpaid for script drafts end up being used for storylines.

flop_leash_973, (edited ) to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

The only sane thing to do in response to this is the same thing that SHOULD have been done when Paramount went all sue happy on folks making unofficial Star Trek stuff.

Creators should stop making things related to their works and consumers should stop consuming and giving Paramount money for the official works.

The lesson being if the rights holder for something wants to keep it all to themselves, let them, forget it exists and starve it out of profitable existence. Spend the time and money with content, creators, and consumers that don’t believe sucking up ever dime that’s not nailed down is, or should be, the ultimate goal.

Cqrd,

Did you even read the article? This dumbass wrote a book based on LotR characters and then HE tried to sue the Tolkien estate and Amazon. This person actually probably needs mental help if they think this could have worked, it was such an incredibly bad idea that there has to be some kind of mental health crises involved.

DrJenkem,
@DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube avatar

Worth also mentioning the Tolkien estate is notoriously letigous. There are piracy sites that specifically ban Tolkiens works from being uploaded for that very reason.

bane_killgrind,

They plagiarized his fanfiction. Theoretically you would have rights to your stories even if they involve characters that you don’t have rights to.

ILikeBoobies, (edited )

US law is on the Estate’s side

If the characters/events from LOTR are a big part of his fan fiction then the Estate can have it destroyed

Also since the author had no legal ownership of the works, there is nothing wrong with the people who have rights to it using it

bane_killgrind,

Transformative works exist, I don’t think it works like that.

ILikeBoobies,

The if part is what gets argued in court

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformative_use

transformation is a type of fair use that builds on a copyrighted work in a different manner or for a different purpose from the original

Fifty Shades vs Twilight would be transformative

Anderson v. Stallone

Would be the most likely case reference for this ruling where Anderson made a Rocky sequel and it was deemed infringement

bane_killgrind, (edited )

Yeah wow it’s like I thought ( the right holder being able to dick around writers)

It was strikingly clear to the Court that Anderson’s work was a derivative work; that under 17 U.S.C. section 106(2) derivative works are the exclusive privilege of the copyright holder (Stallone, in this case); and that since Anderson’s work is unauthorized, no part of it can be given protection.

After he had meetings with MGM about using that script.

LavaPlanet,

Your true enemy is capitalism, tho. Don’t shoot the messenger.

ILikeBoobies,

Can’t have copyright in capitalistic systems

The person who can produce the work the cheapest is the one who gets money

bouh,

That’s a lose lose scenario. I’d rather guillotine the copyright holder so the IP “fall in the public domain” if you ask me.

KinNectar, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.
@KinNectar@kbin.run avatar

More to the point, who's got a link so we can judge this fanfic for ourselves?

s38b35M5,
@s38b35M5@lemmy.world avatar

Its still on Google Play for now

morrowind,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t trust that will stick around, need a downloadable copy

nicetriangle,
@nicetriangle@kbin.social avatar

I've heard it is utter fucking trash

DroneRights,

Well in that case I do believe Rings of Power plagiarised it, because ROP is trash too

TheMongoose, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

Should copyright for works that old be expired? Yes!

In the actual world we live in, was this guy ever going to avoid being sued so hard that his grandchildren will be embarrassed for him? No!

You've got to admire the lemming-like devotion to the legal cliff he threw himself off though. Writing a sequel to not only a copyright work, but one that is still in the cultural zeitgeist thanks to a 20-year old wildly successful series of films? Ballsy. Subsequently suing one of the largest companies in the world and the estate that produced the original works as infringing his copyright?

Chutzpa, I believe the term is.

AlfredEinstein,

Honestly, I’m surprised he wasn’t embarrassed to claim that any part of that tedious shitheap of storytelling that Amazon produced had been lifted from his work.

The few episodes of that ridiculous black-hole of entertainment are the only things I have ever watched where I truly wanted those hours of my life back.

loobkoob, (edited )
@loobkoob@kbin.social avatar

You felt much more strongly about it than me then. I just found myself not caring about it in the slightest; the only thing I really felt was boredom. Which is arguably the worst possible outcome for any work of art.

FaceDeer,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

Indeed. At least if you hate a work of art it's making you feel something.

rikudou,

I mean, Game of Thrones season 8 made me feel that I’m never watching any content related to it ever again. Not sure they really wanted that kind of hate.

sqgl,

Speaking of Chutzpah…

“The Fellowship of the King” title is a combination of the titles of the first book in the LOTR trilogy “The Fellowship of the Ring” and the third book “The Return of the King”.

“The Two Trees” title is similar to the second book in the LOTR trilogy “The Two Towers”

BustlingChungus,

20 year old films? I didn’t realise someone had made the movies before Peter Jackson…

checks date of release

…fuck

Selmafudd,

They did make an animation before Peter Jackson’s release and I’m too afraid to look at that date

Chobbes,

There’s at least two animated versions that I’m aware of! Apologies for the URLs that contain dates…

Dedh,
Mongostein,

Let’s not forget Led Zepplin referencing it in a song that’s still played every day on the radio.

SomeoneElse, (edited )

Yeah, this guy didn’t have a leg to stand on. There’s an independently owned cafe opposite sarhole mill (inspiration for “the shire”) on the street JRR Tolkien grew up on called “the hungry hobbit”. It’s been called that since 2005 - before the release of the hobbit film. A production company sued this tiny sandwich shop, sitting on a roundabout 3 miles south of Birmingham for the unauthorised use of the word “hobbit”. That was completely egregious imo. It’s now called “the hungry hobb” - they just took down the last two letters on the sign. I really should grab a sandwich from them one day.

AeroLemming,

There are 309 million possible ways to combine 6 letters. I would wager only a few million are even remotely pronounceable. The notion that someone can claim a bunch of those words and prevent other people from using them, even in unrelated areas, is completely absurd. There are over 8 billion people on this planet, words get reused. They should just fucking deal with it.

thecrotch,

deleted_by_author

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  • DroneRights,

    A word isn’t a thought. Thoughts are unique, but a word can be arrived at independently in several different ways by the sea spelled with a C, you see.

    SomeoneElse,

    I get your point but in this case it’s not JRR Tolkiens estate who’s claiming copyright infringement, it’s a random production company in Sweden or something. A production company in an entirely different country with no real ties to JRRT has decided an independent cafe built on the same street as Tolkien grew up on, opposite the mill he used as inspiration, is harming their asset somehow by calling themselves the hungry hobbit.

    BaardFigur,

    Hobbit was a word way before J.R.R. wrote his books, stupid that they were able to sue them

    Nawor3565,

    Unfortunately, you can sue anyone for any bogus reason you want. And if you have more money than whoever you’re suing, it doesn’t matter how frivolous it is, because you can just bankrupt them by forcing them to pay lawyer fees.

    SomeoneElse,

    That’s precisely what happened here. The place had been called the hungry hobbit for years under multiple owners. The current owner bought it, updated some official paperwork and within the first 6 months of her ownership got hit with the “unauthorised usage” bs. She couldn’t afford to fight it. Thankfully the “hungry hobb” is still doing enough business to stay open 12 years later.

    SomeoneElse,

    When it happened I thought the typeface was the issue rather than the word hobbit. But no.Here’s before and this is after. I can’t get my head around the fact that the production company sued this tiny sandwich shop. It’s so ridiculous!

    01189998819991197253,
    @01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

    Funny how the secondary title on the left still says hungry hobbit haha

    Auli, (edited )

    Really where was it used?
    Found it but no it was not. One line in one book from 1895 “The whole earth was overrun with ghosts, boggles … hobbits, hobgoblins."
    So still think it’s very unlikely it was a word that anyone knew before the Hobbit.

    evranch,

    Ballsy? He’s an outright copyright troll and anyone celebrating him here in the comments should read the article…

    He wrote a knockoff book and then tried to claim Tolkien’s characters as his own and sue his estate? Does nobody remember the days of BS software patent trolls trying to claim they invented “the app” or “method for clicking on things with the mouse cursor?” Do we remember how mad we were at those shysters?

    This guy deserves whatever he gets.

    patatahooligan,
    @patatahooligan@lemmy.world avatar

    I read through the article but it doesn’t seem to specify the nature of the book. How do we know it’s a “knock off”? It might very well be fanfiction. Copyright law aside, fanfiction can be original and is a valid artistic expression.

    This is quite a nuanced issue. The author is claiming that the Rings of Power copied his ideas. Even if the author didn’t have the legal right to publish this book, he might have put original ideas into his work, and the Tolkien Estate should not automatically own these. The copyright owner “should” (within the current legal framework) be able to make you take down your derivative work, but they don’t own it. The article doesn’t specify why the original lawsuit was dismissed.

    anewbeginning, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

    The author then filed suit against both Amazon and the Tolkien estate, claiming the streaming series “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power” had borrowed from his sequel and infringed his copyright.

    The gall.

    sheepishly,
    @sheepishly@kbin.social avatar

    I honestly wouldn't even be surprised. What was it, that thing with Star Trek Discovery taking plot points from some adventure game with space-faring tardigrades?

    MxM111, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.
    @MxM111@kbin.social avatar

    Purchased paper books will survive too.

    ExLisper,

    Not if the author finds and destroys it.

    Karlos_Cantana, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.
    @Karlos_Cantana@kbin.social avatar

    I was going to write a Star Wars sequel and then sue Disney for copyright infringement, until I heard this story.

    FigMcLargeHuge,

    Don’t let your dreams be dreams! What were you going to spend all that money on anyway, retirement?

    n3m37h, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

    Amazon should be sued for the Rings of Power

    Reverendender, (edited )

    I can’t really weigh in, as I couldn’t get more than 30 minutes into it.

    n3m37h,

    Exactly

    Zahille7,

    I watched the first episode, but stopped paying attention around the second scene with the proto-hobbits

    Th4tGuyII, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.
    @Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

    Going after the copyright holder for infringing on your work, which by merely existing commercially infringes on their copyright, is one hell of a way to get sued out the arse...

    Having said that, it is a crime that LOTR still hasn't entered the public domain yet.

    DarkGamer,
    @DarkGamer@kbin.social avatar

    Yeah, I'm not sure what this idiot thought would happen...

    BearOfaTime, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

    What was this guy thinking? He was clearly violating copyright.

    Is he just soft in the head, or is he up to something us not crazy people can’t see?

    Saeculum,

    His motivations are beyond our understanding

    ConstableJelly,

    First two books in the series were "Fellowship of the King" and "The Two Trees" so...I'm not entirely convinced they were even very original stories...

    BearOfaTime,

    I’m not a Tolkien fan and even I recognized that, haha.

    Wtf.

    samus12345,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    So the third must be “Return of the Ring.”

    Telorand,

    Oh, is that the one where Bodo Fraggins goes on a long journey to give back to Soraun the ring he lost?

    RaoulDook,

    Frodeo Braggins is a short-statured cowboy with big hairy feet, and has a habit of boasting about improbably grandiose adventures

    samus12345,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    “Excuse me, Mr. Soraun, sir, I think you lost this a couple thousand years ago.”

    PlasmaDistortion, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

    This guy was just deluded to think he was in the right or could win.

    plain_and_simply, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

    Wow that guy died first. How deluded

    ninjan, to piracy in Amazon and Tolkein Estate force author to destroy all copies of his work. Only pirated copies will survive.

    In my opinion LotR should’ve already entered the public domain but thanks to Disney well have to wait until 2044 for that.

    sadreality,

    Reasonable takes like this hurt daddy's profits... is u a domestic terrorist?

    ninjan,

    Worse, a foreign one

    sadreality,

    Obama coming out of retirement to authorize this drone strike!

    "We will not stand by while our national security interests are being assaulted by the axis of evil"

    squiblet,
    @squiblet@kbin.social avatar

    “Axis of evil” was a GWB and Cheney thing. I don’t think Obama ever used the term.

    sadreality,

    i threw that in to keep satire level headed... this aint about Obama but rather the US government behavior overall.

    pbjamm,
    @pbjamm@beehaw.org avatar

    Such optimism that it wont be extended again.

    Telorand, (edited )

    You can’t just extend copyright indefinitely. It’s not like a patent, where you can make minute changes and claim it’s a new product. The original works have a copyright limit of 95 years after the first date of publish (thanks Disney and other corporate lobbyists).

    If we go by The Return of the King, it was published in 1955. That means the words, the story, the settings, and the characters will be public domain in 2050. Steamboat Willie, on the other hand, was published in 1928. That means it expires at the end of this year. Unless Disney can convince Congress to change copyright law again, these copyrights all have hard expiration dates.

    ETA: Disney might have a case where they can claim copyright on the information they added or changed from the original works, just like how they can still claim copyright over Mickey after losing Steamboat Willie.

    And I’m sure they will, because fuck society, amirite? /s

    Auli,

    They already do. Winnie the Pooh is public domain but not Disneys version the one everyone thinks of.

    frezik,

    Works made for hire are 95 years from publication. LotR is not a work for hire, so it goes by life of the author plus 75 years. It goes public domain in 2044.

    BraveSirZaphod,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    Steamboat Willie, the first Mickey Mouse cartoon, will become public domain in literally 13 days.

    JohnDClay,

    Apparently it did for a short while in the US, but not anymore.

    mindbleach,

    Demand reform.

    30 years from publication, no exceptions.

    rikudou,

    And for commercial purposes only. If you’re not making money off of it, you should be able to use it however you want.

    BadlyDrawnRhino,

    I think an argument could be made to set it to the date of death of the author. I agree with the other guy that it should only apply to commercial works though.

    I also don’t think that the copyright should be transferable. The trading of ideas is an absurd concept to me. But then us humans do a lot of absurd things so I guess it’s just par for the course.

    PropaGandalf,

    Well public domain or not this changes nothing for the sailors of the high seas.

    sir_reginald,
    @sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

    not exactly. You can of course still get existing works by pirating them.

    But if the Tolkien works entered the public domain, anyone could use them for any creative purposes freely. And yes, a lot of the new material would be trash. But some excellent works would appear to.

    A good example of this is Lovecraft’s works and the Cthulhu Mythos, that although not public domain until recent years, Lovecraft encouraged others to use his own creations on their own stories, thus expanding the literary universe of his own creation. Some stories are awful, but there has also been a ton of great works based on Lovecraft’s creations that couldn’t have existed otherwise.

    DroneRights,

    Also Sherlock Holmes. Now, the BBC might have done a terrible job, but a lot of other people have written great stories because Sherlock Holmes is in the public domain

    Another character in the public domain is Zeus, and the rest of his family. Liked Disney’s Hercules? Supergiant’s Hades? Netflix’s Blood of Zeus? Riordan’s Percy Jackson? Only possible because of public domain.

    PoisonedPrisonPanda,

    LotR should’ve already entered the public domain

    Where is the petition to sign up for?

    SuddenDownpour,

    Don’t worry, they’ll manage to get it extended again before 2044.

    hh93,

    Can’t have the already well-off children go without their steady income that they didn’t have to work for…

    reverendsteveii,

    Well how else are we supposed to encourage people to be related to people who develop intellectual property? It makes sense from a neponomic standpoint.

    littlebluespark,
    @littlebluespark@lemmy.world avatar

    Necromonic, even.

    sqgl, (edited )

    Believe it or not, some people do work extra hard in order to ensure their descendants have an easy life. I’m not weighing in on whether that is wise or not but it is definitely a thing.

    DroneRights,

    Yeah, and that’s why white people are richer than black people today, even though slavery ostensibly ended 200 years ago. It’s time that we outlaw this behaviour.

    reverendsteveii,

    you’re gonna get downvoted but no amount of downvotes will change the fact that black people weren’t allowed to own things in america until most things were already owned by white people.

    EmergMemeHologram,

    It may as well be, they’re endorsing all sorts of shit content lately (like the Golem game, or the ring of power)

    vaquedoso, (edited )

    I haven’t played the gollum game, but rings of power was actually good tho

    Gormadt,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Do yourself a favor and don’t play the Gollum game

    It’s really bad

    vaquedoso, (edited )

    Honestly I don’t really care, I’m more inclined to strategy and 4x games.
    If you don mind me recommending a game, check out against the storm, it’s a city builder with rogue like elements, and it came out recently out of early access, it’s reaaaaally addicting

    EmergMemeHologram,

    I will take your advice and check out this game

    vaquedoso,

    Do let me know what you think of it!

    littlebluespark,
    @littlebluespark@lemmy.world avatar

    Better than the Mines of Moria, though… Barely, and only at times.

    frezik,

    The books go into public domain in 20 years. Now that Christopher Tolkien is out of the way (who tended to block a lot of stuff, for better or worse) , the current heirs want as much out of it as they can.

    20 years might sound like a lot, but that’s about as much time as between the Peter Jackson movies and now.

    Sylvartas,

    Tbh they seem to be a lot more “hands off” with non-canon stuff, which I think includes all of the LOTR/middle earth licensed games, and that’s not a bad thing imo.

    KingThrillgore,
    @KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

    Embracer is gonna be the next one to beg for an extension.

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