ATV is the only box I recommend. I’m anti-Google, don’t trust Amazon (and now their service is going to do ads on a paid Prime membership), and Roku has major privacy issues at least in the past. Curious why you’re seeking an alternative to Apple.
I’m curious why you would trust Apple and not the others you have listed. All of them will do literally anything to just earn more money and exploit you as much as possible.
Apple, the company that has by far the worst anti-consumer practices when it comes to technology and is actively lobbying against you being able to own your products?
I mean, neither of you is wrong. On user privacy, Apple is probably the least worst of the big providers. At the same time their business model is to lock in users to their platform and hardware. “Once you’ve gone Mac you’re not going back” is the result of a deliberate design choice on Apple’s part.
Sounds to me like OP is aiming to bypass the entire corporate cloud service mess by going self-sufficient via FLOSS?
Apple is a hardware company first, not an advertising and services company like Google and Roku, and not a literal massive online retailer like Amazon.
Apple TV is the only one that doesn’t have ads on its home screen. I use an Apple TV to play all my physical media that has been ripped to mov and re-encoded with handbrake
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted to hell. The Apple TV ui used to be really nice, but when they launched Apple TV+, it turned into this garbage interface that’s terrible to navigate with an absolute garbage remote that took them years to fix (butterfly keyboard anyone?)
Before tv+, the Apple TV was a platform with apps for the services you wanted to use. It was simple and intuitive. Want to watch Netflix, open the Netflix app.
Then with tv+ they turned the whole thing into this inception bullshit. Sure you still have apps, but you also have tv plus with apps inside the app and obfuscation as to what’s watchable and what isn’t without subscribing to whatever rando service.
I used to love Apple TV. It just worked. For reasons unrelated, around four years ago we switched to Roku. Well, now, on our tcl Roku tv, which is only four years old, the Roku software runs like hot garbage.
We still have an Apple TV, (4K, dunno which one exactly, but around 6 years old). So instead of buying a whole new tv, which other than Roku’s garbage software, is a perfectly functional tv, I decided to hook up the Apple TV.
I wasn’t thrilled about the idea of using that trash touch panel remote that came with it, but was kinda excited to get back to the clean ui that I remembered.
That’s when I discovered all this inception bullshit. And Apple’s new inability to recognize that I’m logged in to my Apple/iCloud account on the Apple TV device. It kept prompting me to log in every five minutes or so, but then when affirming I want to log in, it would tell me I can’t log in, EVEN THOUGH I WAS LOGGED IN ON THE APPLE TV.
After 20 minutes of that bullshit I tossed the Apple TV back in the box it came from and installed Kodi on a raspberry pi. That’s my new smart tv box.
FWIW, I think there is a slow push towards a consolidated “TV” experience which may or may not have started as result of Apple launching Apple TV+. Sometime over the last several years, there have been a push towards consolidating the streaming content into one place, so users would theoretically get a unified search and viewing experience. I think the most recent version of tvOS even did away the iTunes Store in favor of having that integrated directly in the TV app.
However, I said may or may not have started as result of Apple TV+ service because that seems like a consistent trend across the board. Even in Plex, I do a search, I get a bunch of content that they’re trying to redirect me towards (Plex’s own FAST TV service, and maybe even purchase else where if memory serves).
None of these negates what you’ve said though. It has nothing to do with TV+ service, and dude could’ve just ignored the TV app and used the Plex app if that’s their streaming source. In fact, Plex cannot integrate into the TV app because Plex cannot provide searchable metadata about content on your server to Apple in a unified fashion — vaguely recall reading something about Apple requires app to give one search end-point that will return one search result to Movie X, and there’s no way for Plex to differentiate my version of Movie X on my server from your version of Movie X on your server. So even the whole TV app thing is kind of moot.
All of your points are great, but don’t consider that I was an Apple TV+ subscriber, so I needed the tv+ app.
Jellyfin is one of my streaming sources, and I was intending to use the Swiftfin app on tvOS, along with tv+ app and apps for the other services I subscribe to. With Kodi I’m now just hitting my local library directly, and using the Kodi add ons for the other services I subscribe to.
@prettybunnys, yeah, I was being hyperbolic and overly dramatic in my previous comment.
However, what is true in my experience (which I know is not everyone’s experience) is that:
The Roku software on my four year old tv is now unusable. It is slow, routinely locks up and freezes in playback and/or navigation, necessitating a replacement smart tv solution of some sort.
I thought that solution could be the Apple TV 4K I already have.
The Apple TV 4K has a number of software and hardware issues that make it unusable for me.
Those issues include:
That touchpad remote. My butterfly keyboard mention is referring to the fact that Apple is well known for standing ground for years on their dumber hardware decisions. The touchpad remote was the default and only remote you could get for an Apple TV for six years (2015-2021). The butterfly keyboard was the only keyboard option on MacBooks for five years (2015-2020). The Magic Mouse with a charging port on the bottom is still the default Magic Mouse you get with a Mac. The Magic Mouse was also introduced in 2015 (going on nine years now).
The login issue I mentioned is the biggest software issue. Despite being logged in to my Apple/iCloud account in tvOS, it prompts me for a tvOS login roughly every five minutes. When I attempt to log in with the prompt (remember, I am already logged in) it tells me I can’t log in. I attempted to resolve this and gave up after 20 minutes of searching and troubleshooting. I pulled the plug because it shouldn’t take nearly half an hour to try to log in to software you’re already logged into.
As @chiisana .net mentioned, The TV+ app is trying to be the hub for tv watching, which from a user perspective is confusing. tvOS is the hub, with the apps, and tvOS is still there. I think it’s safe to say that Apple would prefer all Apple TV+ users to use Apple hardware so Apple can have all the monies. With that in mind they probably designed the tv+ app to be its own hub (where within that app you can watch stuff from [insert streaming service]’s content without leaving the app) to try and poach TV+ subscribers on non Apple hardware. From the company’s perspective that makes sense. (Make people think all they need is Apple TV+, and hey, next streaming device we buy might as well be an Apple one.) That doesn’t make my user experience any better. For me at least, it makes it worse. I wanted the simplicity of tvOS as the only hub. (Editing to add that you do need to have the tv+ app installed if you’re a subscriber, which we were until recently.)
This is preference, and likely something I could have disabled had I gotten past the login issue, but I personally don’t like the bouncy, sticky, wiggly bits they added to tvOS and tv+ to accommodate the touchpad remote.
Huh? Use the remote app on your phone. It automatically pops up like a notification when there’s a text box on the screen. So easy. You can turn the box off by holding the power button for a few seconds. To close apps, you double tap the TV button and then it’s an iOS like interface that you scroll over and swipe up on the ones you want to close.
The UI is very minimal and the same across most all apps, so it’s easy to learn and use. It may be missing some power features, but most things are accessed via clicking of just holding.
Take a second and just let it sink in how fucking stupid that sentence is. Why do I need an application on my phone to use my device efficiently? Why doesn’t the remote have T9-like keys, or voice input? Hell, they invented the click-wheel, come on.
“your new garage door opener uses a pin. since the fob doesn’t have numbers, you just need to unlock your phone and type your pin in that way instead!” would be DOA with the first review. Why is apple getting a pass here?
(I’ve never used the atv, just seen it used by others, and text input wasn’t something they needed)
All remote based typing is awful, T9 included. I can’t speak for everyone, but I can type with swipe gestures on a virtual keyboard via remote faster than I can input T9 text. I’m unaware of any stock remote for a device with a full keyboard. I would argue Apple has text entry perfected at least as well as any other major manufacturer. You have virtual keyboard entry, solid voice-to-text, and it can be configured to push a notification to your iOS device when you enter a search bar which will auto-open to the remote app and pull up the keyboard. Because of this feature passwords can also be autofilled from Keychain to make logins easier.
You may personally prefer T9, but I’ve never seen anyone in the last decade input anything into a TV via T9. And you’re asking why it doesn’t have voice input, when it does. You admit to having never used an Apple TV yourself. I hate the idea of app-only interfaces features, but this isn’t a case like that. Maybe you should understand the features of a product before you call it “fucking stupid”.
I mean I’d rather have a mini qwerty keyboard included for this purposes, but companies won’t spend any money they don’t have to, so I figure T9 is a happy medium. For when you just need to type a few characters to get to what you want.
I stand behind the idea that I need an app in place of an input method “fucking stupid”, regardless though.
Guess what? An ATV natively supports keyboards and game controllers over Bluetooth. So for someone who doesn’t have an iPhone (the remote app is baked into iOS unfortunately) and reeeeeally hates tv remote typing and voice inputs, a mini keyboard is a viable option.
You really didn’t do any research before making so many hot takes.
That’s cool, really, and they should promote that feature.
But as I’ve stated elsewhere in this thread, no I didn’t, and said as much - just looking at the product images, as any typical potential customer would. But you’d know that if you read the comments, so…
Why doesn’t the remote have T9-like keys, or voice input?
It absolutely has voice input.
For passwords, copying and pasting my long, unique, complex passwords from my phone is way easier than any T9 input would ever be.
I have used numerous smart TVs native systems, Google TV boxes, and the NVIDIA Shield. I could not tolerate the UI paradigms or THE FUCKING ADVERTISEMENTS on literally every other system. It is repulsive.
Bonus points to the NVIDIA Shield for being alone it it’s ability to do Atmos from my own media files, though…
It’s almost like I said I’ve never used one, how mind-blowing. Your deduction skills are truly unmatched.
I went looking at the product page and saw no button for voice in any of their images. I guess you have to hold something for a few seconds, but as a new user, I’d never know it was there.
Also, plex and a few others offer the options to type, scan a qr code, or visit a url and sign in to validate the user. I guess if you’re stuck with typing as your only option, fine, use the app. Still not what I’d call a good user experience.
99% of apps on Apple TV have the same kind of login option. If they don’t, it’s on the app developer to implement.
The exception to this that I run into regularly is connecting to a local media server, say through Infuse (seems to handle some codecs better than Plex, and has few if any audio sync issues, though I recommend pointing Infuse at a Jellyfin instance so your library’s metadata doesn’t get cleared and need to be re-indexed on the Apple TV somewhat regularly).
Maybe you ought to take the stance of not talking about something you’re unfamiliar with. Every thing you’ve pointed at has been wrong.
Yeah but again that is on the app creator not the Apple TV.
Apple implementing a really nice keyboard using your phone to work around the app developer being lazy should be considered a bonus not a “well why didn’t they do this other thing” which is what I’m saying.
I don’t see how an app developer could really work around this, if I’m inputting a server address and password for an SMB share. For everything else, sure. I agree that the Remote app’s copy/paste functionality for these elements is literally the best possible solution.
I’m kinda drunk given its New Year’s Eve but I am 99% sure I could find and implement a QR code based authentication method in short order if I tried.
Plex does it, everyone else does it, in this day and age there’s no reason why you can’t generate a token and then a uri and then a QR code if you are able to handle the rest of it.
Again, how is it on Apple or any vendor for that matter, to be on the hook for them?
if they really wanted they could use Apple based oauth
For arbitrary text input id ask you to point at any other remote / UI that handles this limitation better.
This all makes sense to me if there is a server side component to the app. But with Infuse, there isn’t, and I can’t figure out where the QR code is taking me to “authenticate” on my own, locally hosted SMB server? Not a biggie - typically only need to do this once per server, and the Remote app works fine for me.
For arbitrary text input id ask you to point at any other remote / UI that handles this limitation better.
I think you think you’re talking to someone else? I agree with you.
To the contrary, I own two older Macs and like some of their software/services enough to pay for it as a subscription; I’m not the one making bold assumptions here, at least not without saying I’m not fully aware. You, on the other hand…
Thank you for the comment. I should’ve provided more context in the original post. Without getting too deep, I’m starting to reconsider my personal views on privacy, content ownership (vs. streaming), where / how I spend my money, etc.
I’m in the Apple ecosystem but wondering if going back to open source, purchased media (music, movies, etc.), donating to projects, etc. is “better”. Which is highly subjective and personal, of course.
The reason for the question was to see what other folks may be doing.
If privacy is the concern, you should really read the breakdown from Mozilla someone shared. Can’t miss it, large wall of text in this thread. Apple ecosystem is much better than others in the privacy department. The other players are much worse when it comes to personal data collection and selling.
Yup, I did go down the rabbit hole and read the links and stuff. Interesting reading and something to consider. I guess it’s back to a non-networked DVD/Blu-Ray player and get stuff from the local library or Craigslist :)
Also aim for non-networked TVs or they might be doing ACR and phoning home, even if you’re watching your own physical content. A former coworker on ad selling side mentioned before ACR on smart TVs, companies like Nielsen and alike would track content using digital fingerprints hidden in the overscan part of your TV. So there’s all sorts of creepy tracking tech all over.
Yeah, a sad side effect of the subscription/advertising economy. Current TV has as much of that turned off, that I can find at least. Although I haven’t gone full “remove everything from the network”, yet 🙂
It’s insane how many things they push as Snaps when they are entirely incompatible with the Snap model.
I think everyone first learns what Snaps are by googling “why doesn’t ____ work on Ubuntu?” For me, it was Filebot. Spent an hour or two trying to figure out how the hell to get it to actually, you know, access my files. (This was a few years ago, so maybe things are better now. Not sure. I don’t live that Snap life anymore, and I’m not going back.)
This exactly. If you already have Pis they are still great. Back when they were $35 it was a pretty good value proposition with none of the power or space requirements of a full size x86 PC. But for $80-$100 it’s really only worth it if you actually need something small, or if you plan to actually use the gpio pins for a project.
If you’re just hosting software a several year old used desktop will outperform it significantly and cost about the same.
True. I did some rough math when I needed to right-size a UPS for my home server rack and estimated that running a Pi4 for a year would cost me about $8 worth of electricity and that running an x86 desktop would cost me about $40. Not insignificant for sure if you’re not going to use the extra performance that an x86 PC can offer.
You’re quite right about the Pi 5 power efficiency, an Alder Lake N100 / i3 will smoke it in ops / watt given the right board, but the context was ‘a several year old used desktop’ which the Pi will handily beat.
Depends on what it’s doing. The Pi5 has lower idle power usage but if it’s under constant load it’s actually very inefficient. Keep in mind that the Pi5 has a 25W max TDP, almost as high as the N100.
The reason that the N100 is seems less efficient in Jeff’s video is because it’s clocked a lot higher. And power usage increases exponentially with higher clockspeeds
The Pi5 is made on the 28nm node, which is from around 2011. Of course it has other efficiency improvements like the GPU and the ARM architecture, but pound for pound I don’t think the Pi5 even beats a 6 year old desktop in efficiency if the desktop was properly downclocked and not running some inefficient HDD’s or the likes.
Rockchip boards on the other hand are made on 22nm, which is why they tend to be a bit more efficient.
It depends. They’re simply the most annoying drives out there because Seagate on their wisdom decided to remove half of the SMART data from reports and they won’t let you change the power settings like other drives. Those drives will never spin down, they’ll even report to the system they’re spun down while in fact they’ll be still running at a lower speed. They also make a LOT of noise.
Aren’t they meant to go in data centers? You wouldn’t want a drive in a data center to spin down. That introduces latency in getting the data off of them.
That should be a choice of the OS / controller card not of the drive itself. Also what datacenter wants to run drives that don’t report half of the SMART data just because they felt like it?
We used to use smart data to predict when to order new drives and on really bad looking days increase our redundancy. Nothing like getting a bad series of drives for PB of data to make you paranoid I guess.
What kind of attributes did you find relevant? I imagine the 19x codes…
I’ve read the Blackblaze statistics and I’m using a tool (Scrutiny) that takes those stats into account for computing failure probability, but at the end of the day the most reliable tell is when a drive gets kicked out of an array (and/or can’t pass the long smart test anymore).
Meanwhile, I have drives with “lesser” attributes sitting on warning values (like command timeout) and ofc I monitor them and have good drives on standby, but they still seem to chug along fine for now.
I have 3 14tb exos drives. I have them in a Roswell 4u hotseap chassis. Running unraid.
It’s nearly inaudible over the very reasonable case fans. No grinding noises. I can hear the heads moving a bit but it’s quite subtle. Not sure why people have such different experiences with these
I noticed when they first spin up on boot they do some sub routine and they’re pretty loud and chatty. First time I heard it I was spooked but it worked fine and I just use it for backup so I just moved on. Once it’s on and in normal operation it’s like any other disk I’ve used over the decades. Nothing as loud as an old scsci disk or a quantum fireball.
Relevant documentation for others about -S / spindown_time:
Values from 1 to 240 specify multiples of 5 seconds, yielding timeouts from 5 seconds to 20 minutes. Values from 241 to 251 specify from 1 to 11 units of 30 minutes, yielding timeouts from 30 minutes to 5.5 hours. A value of 252 signifies a timeout of 21 minutes.
The real issue here is backups vs disaster recovery.
Backups can live on the same network. Backups are there for the day to day things that can go wrong. A server disk is corrupted, a user accidentally deletes a file, those kinds of things.
Disaster recovery is what happens when your primary platform is unavailable.
Your cloud provider getting taken down is a disaster recovery situation. The entire thing is unavailable. At this point you’re accepting data loss and starting to spin up in your disaster recovery location.
The fact they were hit by crypto is irrelevant. It could have been an earthquake, flooding, terrorist attack, or anything, but your primary data center was destroyed.
Backups are not meant for that scenario. What you’re looking for is disaster recovery.
On the other hand, most of the disaster senarios you mention are solved by geographic redundancy: set up your backup // DRS storage in a datacenter far away from the primary service. A scenario where all services,in all datacenters managed by a could-provider are impacted is probably new.
It is something that, considering the current geopolical situation we are now it, -and that I assume will only become worse- that we should better keep in the back of our mind.
It should be obvious from the context here, but you don’t just need geographic separation, you need “everything” separation. If you have all your data in the cloud, and you want disaster recovery capability, then you need at least two independent cloud providers.
That’s rad, and you did an amazing job keeping them whole. Recently I have been wrapping them in cloth, then the kids form clay around them for various fridge and office magnets.
That’s a good idea. Yeah, the trick I discovered in getting them off the mounting bracket without the chrome plating peeling is to grab each end of the bracket with vice grips and/or pliers (after you unscrew it from the drive) and just bend it down and away from the magnet. They usually come off in one piece that way, too.
I’ve done some of that, recently I have an old putty knife and I will put it right against the crack and just hammer it which will unstick it enough that I can pull it off. Newer drives definitely have weaker magnets than some of my much older ones.
Cool, I’ll try this next time. So far the least damaging way I’ve tried is putting the thing in hot water. The magnet and the base expand by different amounts and it is relatively easy to pry the magnet off. But the thing cools down quickly so it takes a few tries.
I was doing some blacksmithing in high school, mostly knifes.
When reaching 800°C steel is not magnetic anymore, it’s also a good temperature to start forging the steel. So I needed a atrong magnet to know when the steel was hot enough, I used what I have available: a hard drive magnet.
It felt quite “mad-maxy” to disassemble a broken hard drive to use it as a tool to forge knifes
The only reason SBCs were ever relevant is because of the excellent pricing, which has now been matched by used x86 computers. That and if the SBC had an open-source design/implementation (open schematics on RISC-V)
Agreed. Easy to setup on my synology NAS, and it works so well.
My only issue I’ve been having, which is not related to FreshRSS, is getting RSS in twitter to work reliably. Nitter hasn’t been reliable at all over the last year.
From the previous issue it sounds like the developer has proper legal representation, but in his place I wouldn’t even begin talking with Haier until they formally revoke the C&D, and provide enforceable assurances that they won’t sue in the future.
Also I don’t know what their margins are like, but even if this cost them an extra $1000 in AWS fees on top of what their official app would have cost them (I seriously doubt it would be that much unless their infrastructure is absolute bananas), then it would probably only be a single-digit number of sales that they would have needed to loose to come out worse off from this.
You aren’t giving us enough information to even speculate the answer. Are these Enterprise grade servers in a datacenter? Are these home made servers with consumer or low grade hardware you’re calling servers? Are they in the same datacenter or do they go out to the Internet? What exists between the hops on the network? Is the latency consistent? What is the quality of both sides of the connection? Fiber? Wi-Fi? Mobile? Satellite?
Does it drop too nothing or just settle into a constant slower speed? What have you tried to trouble shoot? Is it only rsync or do other tests between the hosts show the same behavior?
Give us more and you might get some help. If these hosts are Linux I would start with iperf to do a more scientific test. And report to us some more info.
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