Man, just thinking of the mental anguish that Obi-Wan went through in his adult life. He suffered just as much as Anakin, if not more - yet he never fell from his path. After seeing his love interest murdered by the former Sith - who killed his mentor in front of him - he thought he killed, he went a literal decade in exile thinking he killed his best friend, who was complicit in the deaths of thousands of their fellow Jedi and friends, over something that could have been avoided if they didn’t inadvertently play into Palpatine’s umbrella of schemes nearly every time.
Then he found out Anakin was still alive, and actually responsible for all of the behind-the-scenes action of the Empire.
Edit: to give credit to Anakin, he was a teenager when he began being fully groomed by Palpatine. Given that Palpatine was one of the strongest force users in all of known galactic history, I think Anakin would have been an extreme Grey Jedi at worst if he wasn’t manipulated by the Dark Lord of the Sith
Duchess Satine, Ruler of Mandalore. She appears intermittently during the Clone Wars show. Anakin and Obi-Wan kinda had a thing for independent women in power lol
You say he never fell from the path but I’d argue heavily against that. I mean he didn’t prior to Kenobi but after that? I typically stand by the stance that the only Jedi in the Original Trilogy is Luke and he doesn’t even count until RotJ.
Obi-Wan and Yoda actively lied to Luke about who his father was. They trained him to kill Darth Vader, his father, in what feels like an act of vengeance for how Vader betrayed them. Now I get it, they do have a justification in saying go after Vader but they were insistent on Vader. Not Palpatine. Sure, Daddy Vader is a problem but he’s not the sole problem. Getting rid of him would hurt the Empire but with Palpatine and everyone else hanging around it is still going to be standing very strong. They also can’t claim ignorance of Palpatine considering Yoda did his ‘Kermit on Ketamine’ sequence at the Senate against The Senate. I mean, for fucks sake, Yoda starts trying to die faster the second that Luke starts asking questions. Obi-Wan, a fucking ghost at this point, is still lying to the poor kid and trying to justify his behavior.
Now, like I said, I don’t blame either of them. The loss that both Yoda and Obi-Wan suffered was utterly immeasurable but they were not exactly holding strictly to Jedi ideals and teachings at that point. Flowing through them the hate was.
Good points, but an important thing to consider is the Jedi - Obi-Wan and Yoda included, Yoda especially - were so caught up in their own hubris that they allowed all these events to transpire in their faces. The rise of the Empire didn’t cause this to change, as evidenced by your points that Yoda and Obi-Wan lied to Luke until they realized they couldn’t anymore. Plus, they did the same to Anakin and Ahsoka in different situations during the Clone Wars - while they all were still part of the Jedi Order. So I’d say the surviving Jedi barely changed in that regard. But my point was, Obi-Wan never fell to the dark side as Anakin did - despite having gone through worse for longer.
Personally, I hope future Jedi are more pragmatic / Grey in their approaches, similar to Qui-Gon or Dooku before his fall. I think if more Jedi had been like that, Palpatine would not have been able to be as opportunistic as he was. Btw, thanks for engaging in this lol I’m a sucker for it all
Oh I completely agree with all of your points. I just also stand by the fact that they did stray. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worst, but they’re definitely not upholding the tenants of the Jedi Order in the way that they used to. I think it isn’t until Luke faces Vader and holds back from the darkside that both Yoda and Obi-Wan sort of come to have an inner realization of how they changed. That’s totally headcanon for me but I dunno. I like the idea that they were corrupted and didn’t realize it until the ‘Next Generation’ helped them realize it. I’m a sucker for that shit just like you’re a sucker for the conversation.
For the record, I’m always down to do this. If you ever wanna have a chat about Star Wars, hit me up! I may be more well versed in Star Trek but that’s not saying much. I’m still steeped in a fuckload of Star Wars as well.
No one claimed the Alliance were free from casual racism. They may be trying, but their personal culture was formed by decades of imperial rule.
Those medals are for “command staff” only. Han is the captain of the MF and Luke is the acting squad leader of Red Squad (you might notice that the veteran, who missed his shot but survived, doesn’t get a medal, either.)
Rogue One was the first time I feel like we got to see Vader as properly terrifying. That was my favorite appearance of his until Jedi: Fall Order came out, and omfg he is even scarier in that one. I love scary Vader.
Kenobi was hit and miss. There were moments like when he had Kenobi backed into a corner, then Kenobi lit a fire between them and escaped, like Vader couldn't deal with that? I feel like he would have like parted the flames or tried to pull Kenobi into them or something. He just let him go, but then we see him indiscriminantly killing people in the streets and it's like, "okay, there he is."
I feel like he would have like parted the flames or tried to pull Kenobi into them or something.
If we’re being honest, so many fights could be easily won by simply force crushing someone’s skull or something. But that wouldn’t be an interesting fight.
You really have to! Spider-Man wasn’t born Spider-Man, he became Spider-Man one day. You can’t know what/when will trigger your ability to use the force. So constant testing is required.
Small tangent, that’s the excuse I also use every time I’m drinking something and it goes down the wrong tube “Nope, still not Aquaman”.
I know this is a meme, but I think the simplest answer is filming. Chewy is really tall, if he stands on a lower step, the main cast is all in the same shot.
Meme goodness aside, if you want an analytical look at the psychology of Anakin, check out this video.
If you want a super deep dive on the philosophy behind Jedi thought (which is at the core of Star Wars as George Lucas framed a lot it from his experience as a Buddhist) take a look at this YouTube video. I’ve never heard a more complete explanation of the star wars universe and it addresses a lot of the superficial criticisms people direct towards the Jedi and general stance the movies take on good and bad.
As a secondary plug, for any who played the RPG Knights of the Old Republic II, here is an awesome breakdown of the Kreia character by the same creator. Not just interesting from the perspective of fans of the game, but philosophy in general.
I’ve said this before and I think it needs repeating. Filoni is making better stuff than Disney did, and besides, the originals weren’t as good as nostalgia thinks they are. Filoni’s stuff is on par with the originals and like the originals its a great time for families and kids.
Ehhh almost. The best Disney era stuff has been Mandalorian (S1) and Andor, which had, at best, Filoni consulting. Filoni’s stuff is good quality but it’s also fairly simplistic and self-referential, to the point of being almost masturbatory. I think Clone Wars is the best he’s produced and it’s 95% awful kids show with 5% very high quality storytelling mixed in, but I’ll give the benefit of the doubt since it was literally intended as a kids show.
Prequels and sequels were pretty terrible for opposite reasons, as another poster has already mentioned. The original trilogy is pretty high quality, I don’t think that’s even debatable. While New Hope was a pretty bog-standard chosen one/heroic epic story, and maybe/definitely just a rip-off of Hidden Fortress, it gets all the credit for the blend of Eastern and Western themes and concepts. Additionally, for absolutely stunning special effects for the era. Empire is just objectively a good movie, and is definitely when Star Wars peaked. It’s got excellent writing, directing, and cinematography, and did a phenomenal job maintaining the strengths of New Hope while doing a ton of work developing all of the characters and the universe. Jedi is… okay tbh. I put it about on par with the prequels although the Emperor is my favorite character.
The biggest problem imo with the Disney products lately is exactly that - they are clearly products intended only to capitalize on an already-successful IP, with nothing really to say nor any story to tell. Filoni doesn’t have this problem, but he does have the issues above. If Disney can focus on letting creatives tell the stories they want to tell in the Star Wars Universe instead of just churning out products, I think they’ll be okay.
Hard disagree. Filoni made Ahsoka, which is trash. He’s the executive producer of The Book of Boba Fett, which is trash. He’s the executive producer and wrote some episodes of The Mandalorian, which started promising and then turned to trash. So yeah. He fits right in with anything Disney created.
filoni did a great job making the clone wars. i’ll say that. i’m currently watching rebels and mandalorian S03 and am quite disappointed, as usual with newer star wars stuff.
the main thing is: they may not have a grand roadmap like i imagine george had. none of the newer stuff is really that coherent. it spends more time inventing new stuff that never gets expanded on instead of tying into the previously established lore.
the originals were never the greatest movies ever made, and that’s fine. at least it all made sense. it was all explainable. it was coherent.
i feel lost when watching post-2014 stuff, maybe because the lore isn’t established yet, but maybe because it just didn’t get thought through.
My biggest gruff with Disney is them declaring the extended universe non canon just to cherry pick details from it while ignoring the most exciting lore and shit.
Like the whole palpatine returning thing happened in the EU but was done in a much better way. Different materials like beskar were more fleshed out.
Disney literally had thousands of stories to draw inspiration from and chose to just come up with bullshit over and over again.
absolutely. never read any of the comics, but most of the really interesting stories seem to happen there. would love a well executed starkiller series. i actually did not know about him until i watched some matpat style videos about star wars.
I kind of love Starkiller’s story, including the fact that his actions were so instrumental to forming the Rebel Alliance that they took his family crest as their sigil. That’s badass.
IMO the prequel and sequels are about equal in badness. The odd thing was they’re bad in almost exactly opposite ways.
The prequels had a story to tell, but they broke down in the minutia. There was a solid core plot, but once we got to how things played out scene by scene the movies broke down. George knew how he wanted the story go, but he seemed to have no idea how to get from plot point a to plot point b.
The sequels were nearly directionless in story, but ever scene in their rudderless plot had good dialog, pacing and tone. It’s like a jigsaw puzzle that has a picture of static printed on it. Episode 7 was just a re-hash of 3, 8 had two weak plots glued together pushed forward by contrived urgency and episode 9 was just a mix of one-upsmanship threat level as well as trying to ret-con the previous two movies into a coherent story arc.
I just watch Star Wars for the artistic creativity: words, species, spaceships, clothes, choregraphies, FX, sound design, music … I except nothing from scenario and acting, because I expect it to be shit.
The prequels were trash. The only good thing they did was pave the way for more competent writers to expand on the new material, like with the Clone Wars show.
Midichlorians is just the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, it ruins the Force/the Jedi, turning them from a religion to basically just X-Men, but that’s peanuts compared to changing Jedi from being an esoteric order of warrior monks (remember, Han Solo says he’s been all over the galaxy and never heard of the Force) to actually being the galaxy’s space cops just 20 years ago. That means Han was alive when the Jedi were still venerated. Little slave Ani on Tatooine knew more about the Jedi than Luke did when he was on the cusp of joining the Rebellion; the prequels straight up do not fit in the same universe as the original trilogy without crazy mental gymnastics. Darth Vader was literally mocked to his face for being a religious fruitcake in episode 4, that’s how much presence the Force originally had.
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