feddit.de

SkyezOpen, to memes in Check out my AI generated movie poster of Custer's Revenge!

Using a popular meme format to shit on a popular meme format? Bold.

Prunebutt,

At least I’ve made some observation about the world and expressed it in a creative way (using an established template). That’s five times as much creative effort than AI image posters.

Even_Adder,

Where’s the Custer’s Revenge? I was sure it would be in the comments.

Minarble,
Even_Adder,

I appreciate it. Thanks.

glibg10b,

Run Stable Diffusion locally for infinite images and unrestricted prompts :)

Donkter,

Making an observation like this about the world takes as much effort as thinking of the next tragedy you could turn into an AI Pixar photo, as in, none whatsoever. Hell it will probably get harder as more ai images are created, the hardest part of this post was you thinking of Custer’s Revenge as a tragedy that hasn’t been done.

Your observation was an emotional reaction probably spurred by comments posted by other people. Honestly far far less interesting than an AI image of Custer’s revenge. And by the way, id like to see you make an effort to create that AI image of Clusters revenge at the same quality I’ve seen other AI images. I can almost guarantee you it will take you more effort than it took to create this.

Catoblepas,

And by the way, id like to see you make an effort to create that AI image of Clusters revenge at the same quality I’ve seen other AI images. I can almost guarantee you it will take you more effort than it took to create this.

Yeah, typing sounds like a lot more effort than typing.

Donkter,

Precisely my point. The only point where effort comes in is knowing how to manipulate the prompt to get a good looking image and knowing which program will get you the best result.

webghost0101,

If your exposure of ai generated images is exclusively tech demos like the one on bing sure thats what happening.

Its not what’s happening in the art space though, i propose you a challenge to proof the effort.

Install automatic1111 with stable diffusions. (one of the few actual proper ai generating tools, most sites/appa that promise ai generated art use a dumb version of this tool under the hood.

Use it to Create a poster for a classic video game in the style of modern animation without any visible Disney/pixar logos.

Good luck, most people give up before they Get their first proper output.

Prunebutt,

It’s funny that you focus so much on the Custer’s Revenge part, since that literally took the least effort.

I agree that using the meme wasn’t too much of an effort. But I consider the creative process I had to be:

  1. Make an observation that the AI Image ideas are lazy.
  2. Think of an appropriate meme format that fits my opinion on the matter.
  3. Create the meme without a watermark (that’s more technical than creative)
  4. Think of an atrocity that’s not too much in bad taste (I don’t want to make fun of the Armenian genocide). That’s literally the last few seconds before I posted.

That’s it. Making the observation and finding an established term to express that in the context of a specific community is IMHO way more creative than being the n-th person to think “wouldn’t it be fucked up if Disney made this?”

webghost0101,

I wont question the creative value of your meme but it would be a misconception to assume its more effort then an ai image just because its an ai image.

Shitposts exists, both with ai an without Thoughtfull artistic expression exists, both with ai and without.

I understand the misconception, you could most certainly enter some vague crap and get a popping result and as long as it gets upvote it will be common.

When I personally make ai art i spend hours on end just tweaking the parameters and prompt to get them to stay in context of my idea. Then let it run a few hours. Analyse those output to “harvest” seeds, then use those seeds and varying amount of tools (including photoshop with drawing tablet) to in a few iterations generate a final image or set.

I wouldn’t compare it to painting or drawing, (most i do with tablet is draw guidelines) but its absolutely a creative process. Like all art, value depends more on the person then the tools used.

Prunebutt,

I don’t want to claim that creating the right image is no effort.

I want to focus on the creative part of the process where the message is expressed. Internet memes are almost by definition low effort to create, since anyone can use a meme-generator or use an image creation tool to use a well established template. That means you can focus on the message/observation that the image should convey.

I can’t paint that well, but I can make jokes about observations I make. That is what I consider to be the creative process that matters in meme communities, since the actual images are ripped from stock images or pop culture.

AI art makes it possible to create images that most people wouldn’t be able to create by hand (or more traditional image creation software). But that part isn’t really important in meme communities, where the form is less important that the message.

It’s kind of the problem with AIs in a nutshell: All form, no context or meaning.

webghost0101,

Thats a fair point. “Ai art” might be a meme but ai art on itself a meme does not make!

It makes sense its posted so much because of the low barrier for entry to make something looks good in a glance. Its excellent for generating fake internet points. But a meme is much more like that, its an evolution of fluid speech and expressive communication.

That making memes is easy isn’t important towards its value but mandatory of we don’t want to go back to the times where written language was exclusive to the upper classes.

Lemmy has in many ways an anti-ai bias against the shortcomings of last years demos, For space supposedly with so many tech oriented progressives that annoys me quite a bit, but i fully agree with you on your stance.

Ai art could be a meme if made into one, but if its not then it should not be in a place for memes.

Prunebutt,

I’m glad that you get my point. Yet, I don’t want to be too gatekeep-y with the status of a “meme” (I really like the original concept, since it is a very useful… meme).

I really want to focus on the message to be brought across. And in most AI generated images I perceive a very lazy thought process behind the idea.

starman2112, to memes in no window
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

>dishes go in dirty

>dishwasher yells and shakes for a few hours

>dishes come out clean

Are you guys really buying this?

MashedTech,

It barely shakes compared to the washing machine. I’m not buying. I believe little elves scrub the dishes clean.

Jimmycrackcrack,

Now the interesting part of the question. Most of us are probably pretty against the idea of slavery, but if you managed to pull back the curtain and found out it really was poor little enslaved elves in your dishwasher scrubbing all your dishes for you, would you say anything, and go back to scrubbing your dishes yourself and also try and find housing and a support network and medical and psychological services for the now freed elves? Or would you maybe just try to forget what you saw and keep putting your dishes in the magic cleaning box?

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Truly the greatest test of morality in the modern age

limelight79,

I just spent a ridiculous number of hours replacing our dishwasher. This is a task that shouldn’t really take more than an hour or two, but there were complications caused by the previous owner of the house…plus I made the mistake of trying to fix our old dishwasher first.

If there are elves in that thing, I’d like to slap 'em around for putting me through that headache.

Viking_Hippie,

Probably the same elves Santa enslaved. That or the Galadhrim of Lothlórien.

shrugal,

I’m pretty sure the dishes that go in and the dishes that come out are not the same dishes!

nickiam2, to fuck_cars in same bed length

One is a truck made for actual work and the other is an abomination pretending to be a truck.

EatYouWell,

The second is basically a minivan, but the 3rd row is a truck bed.

My truck is kinda similar, but they just took a smaller suv and added a bed.

nickiam2,

So why not just use the van? At least the cargo space is covered from the elements. Most people who drove these yank tanks don’t actually need the truck part.

EatYouWell,

Not arguing that at all. But vans really aren’t much better from a fuel economy standpoint.

Catsrules,

So why not just use the van?

Using the right tool for the right job.

Open bed of a truck is very handy for very tall items or stuff that needs to be dumped like rocks, dirt etc… Or if your towing a very large load with goose neck trailer.

inverted_deflector,

Actually minivans have more utility cause you could take out the middle row. And they had the sliding door and hatch and were more compact .

MTK, (edited ) to memes in soak and jump hump

Religion: God is all knowing, all seeing and wise.

Also religion: If you ask your friend to move you inside a vagina, god won’t know you’re fucking!

Suspicious,

God knows but you technically didn’t break the rule

Aaron,

Some real “I tied a string to my friend’s house so it’s technically one house and I didn’t travel there on the Sabbath” energy

otter,

Where are these friends that would “move you inside a vagina god”?! 😱🔥❤️

MTK,

Damn you!

jol,

I mean, God will forgive all sins if you pray sorry after. I think They are pretty gullible.

Gabu, to memes in It's a simple world view

And most of the time you’d be right.

Blackmist, to fuck_cars in same bed length

But only one can crush a toddler without you even feeling it.

Buy the new Ford Infanticide 5000. You’re American. You deserve it.

whofearsthenight,

Gotta appreciate the writers on GTA 6, reality is going to make that a really hard gig.

Diplomjodler,

Not just toddlers. All children under ten are invisible!

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

With the right lift kit even adults are not safe.

pingveno,

I’m a tall male (6’3") and even I worry about being seen over the hood of those monstrosities.

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

After many years of driving different cars/trucks/other I want to know why at some point in the year 2000 decided that vision out of a moving vehicle was secondary to swoopy body lines. Get in something from the 60’s and you can see amazing (even in a boat of a car) yet by 2006 you can not see shit. for example:

Chad 1966 Chrysler 300:

https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/baef016c-0fcc-4ee2-b08f-bf3f202a9ca5.jpeg

2020 Chrysler 300:

https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/6fcc21cb-fa38-4089-949c-e1b6c05a3f61.jpeg

meowbotage,

Safety priority for those inside the vehicle. Significant improvement in side impact protection came around in the 2000’s. At the cost of thicker pillars, taller thicker doors, heavier cars.

mondoman712,
Selmafudd, to memes in soak and jump hump

Sounds like a threesome with extra steps

Gradually_Adjusting,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

*fewer

killeronthecorner,
@killeronthecorner@lemmy.world avatar

Foursome (God watches)

Agent641,

The lord is watching you sinners! (He didnt say stop)

MrBusiness,
otter,

The oldest cuckold. 🤢

ModsAreCopsACAB,

Extra jumps?

bstix, to linuxmemes in Distros bad
MonkderZweite, (edited )

Android? On-the-go and everything is boxed. Still only plastic.

barsoap,

As a DIYer Linux from Scratch obviously.

Tibert,

Red Hat enterprise Linux?

AlmightySnoo,
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

Windows Subsystem for Linux

sverit,

Lol

surewhynotlem,

This response is a hate crime

aniki,

deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • zurohki,

    No, that’s self harm.

    AlmightySnoo, (edited )
    @AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

    it’s like the OS version of the banana & nutella pizza

    d_k_bo,

    Fedora Silverblue

    prettybunnys,

    Ew it’s Netware

    WaterSword,
    @WaterSword@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Definitely Rocky Linux

    EuroNutellaMan,
    @EuroNutellaMan@lemmy.world avatar

    YiffOS

    DirkMcCallahan, to memes in Wok 22

    I used to live near this Thai place that closed and reopened “under new management” every few months or so. They kept the name and even had the same menus, except sometimes they’d cross out items in Sharpie and write new items in the margin.

    It was the best restaurant in town, and I admired their persistence.

    blazera, to news in Don’t fall into the trap of ‘picking sides’ over Gaza: Hamas’s attacks were unconscionable, razing Gaza to the ground would be abhorrent. In both cases, basic humanity is at stake --- [Opinion]
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    The big thing is the Hamas attack wasnt the start of all this. It wasnt Israel minding their own business and Hamas invading for the glory of Islam. The warning cries of a humanitarian crisis were going off long before this recent war, from international humanitarian agencies like Unicef. Gaza was being militarily oppressed by Israel, blocking humanitarian aid, international trade, even denying access to their own waters for fishing.

    Civilians were dying off already as a result of Israel, and Israel ignored the warnings, the international community ignored the warnings, and then its shocked pikachus all around as a dying people fight back for survival.

    FaulerFuffi,

    Why doesn’t Egypt open the border?

    Blackmist,

    They don’t want them either.

    All the Arab world may be united in it’s hatred of Israel, but that doesn’t mean they like each other…

    livus,
    @livus@kbin.social avatar

    @Blackmist it's not about "like" it's about realpolitik.

    2 million refugees into Egypt would be like suddenly allowing 6 million refugees into the US. Political suicide for anyone that did it.

    Especially if it meant you were likely going to get a border war with a notoriously land-stealing nation as well.

    bear,

    Why doesn’t Israel stop doing things that require other countries to intervene

    t3rmit3,

    Because Israel will never let them back in if they leave. That is not hypothetical; it happened to thousands of Palestinians during the 6-day war, and their families are still stuck in Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon today.

    TheSanSabaSongbird,

    It’s also because Hamas has its origins in the Muslim Brotherhood which for obvious reasons means that Egypt is very leery of accepting Palestinians from Gaza.

    I’m not defending their position, just explaining it; Egypt is basically a military dictatorship at this point and the Muslim Brotherhood is enemy number one for them.

    grte,

    Why do you think a Levantine Trail of Tears is an acceptable solution rather than ethnic cleansing?

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    Israel occupies that border too https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphi_Route

    livus,
    @livus@kbin.social avatar

    @FaulerFuffi assuming that's a genuine question there are a bunch of reasons and one is they don't want to open themselves up to being attacked by Israel.

    Why Egypt Won't Open The Border To Its Palestinian Neighbours.

    500 people came through recently iirc.

    leetnewb,

    You can point out back and forth violence going into the 1800s. Nobody has clean hands in this conflict.

    Draedron,

    You can go back much much further than the 1800s, back to the start of zionism.

    skullgiver, (edited )
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • jarfil,

    Lower Paleolithic is as far as some will go when dating first clashes over that same patch of land, or about 200,000 years ago.

    library_napper,
    @library_napper@monyet.cc avatar

    There have always been Jews opposed to Zionism since the idea was created. Its almost like stealing someone elsea land is immoral.

    onkyo,

    Except jews, christians and muslims lived pretty much peacefully together during ottoman rule. The violence worsened when britian controlled palestine and then became a lot worse during the nakba and israeli occupation. It’s not about ‘having clean hands’. It’s about stopping genocide and understanding that occupation and colonialism leads to violent pushback. It always has and always will.

    sqgl,

    Wasn’t the Ottoman period occupation/colonialism too? Not that I am in favour of imperialism but you do raise a fascinating point I wasn’t aware of.

    onkyo,

    The Ottomans took control of palestine after a war with the Mamluk empire. Palestine hasn’t been and independent country for much of it’s history. It’s still a form of occupation but if you were muslim, christian or jewish you still had access to certain rights (unless you were a slave). Mostly if you were muslim.

    lefaucet,

    I dont know anything about this. We’re they all living in the same neighborhoods or we’re they in different neighborhoods in the same city or like different towns in the same Provence?

    Just curious how closely bound their networks were. In my home town folks of different faiths are neighbors and mostly go to the same schools and share a government. There’s not much segregation at all. Sure, there’s racism among all groups, but it gets much weaker and much less frequent with each generation.

    Oh yeah and fuck the ole British state. Bunch of tossers meddling all about so they can exploit everyone’s resources. Their emancipated colony, all-grown-up now, isn’t much better.

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    Mostly it goes back to the 1940's. There was more history of Zionism beforehand, Jewish settlers gradually coming in to live in the holy land. But after WW2 was the large influx and big push for a Jewish ethnostate. Aaand the people living there already opposed it from the start. And since then it's been very apparent why, because Israel pushes beyond the borders they were already given from Palestinian land, and militarily occupy the Palestinian land they dont yet claim.

    ParsnipWitch,

    It was not Palestine at that time though and Jews always lived in the area.

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    I dont care that they were ottoman or british ruled, it was palestinians living there, and they opposed zionism from the beginning

    library_napper,
    @library_napper@monyet.cc avatar

    This issue has nothing to do with Jews. It has to do with Zionism.

    Jews have lived there peacefully, yes. They did so without stealing their neighbors land. Its the Zionists that formed Israel and stole ~40% of Palesines land that caused the war.

    There have always been Jews opposed to Zionism since the idea was first thought up.

    sqgl,

    After the Nazi shit and the reluctance of the West to accept refugees I can understand why.

    And look at the rise of cookers who think we live on a flat earth run by a cabal of Jewish shape-shifting lizards from the planet Nibiru. I do not think social progress by humanity is inevitable anymore.

    Nazi Germany could really happen again. Just last week in Australia a judge revealed himself to be a Nazi sympathiser… old.reddit.com/r/auslaw/comments/…/k6nuov1/

    jarfil,

    After the Nazi shit and the reluctance of the West to accept refugees

    Zionism starts in the 1800s, well before the Nazi shit. The 1940’s One Million Plan actually got amended after the Holocaust by stirring up a civil war so more Jews from Arab countries would flee in fear of prosecution in order to meet the Zionist numbers, precisely because “too many” Western countries were accepting (or got forced to accept) Holocaust refugees, who were nowhere as many as previously expected (by the Zionists).

    Nazi Germany could really happen again

    Not exactly. Genocides have been going on all the time, just the countries and ethnicities have been changing. So you could say it’s been happening all along… while the chance of the same exact combination repeating, is quite low.

    sqgl,

    Thanks for the background info.

    I used to resent that Jews had a special word just for them: “antisemitism”. But now I see it might be warranted because although every migrant group gets racist pushback, it is Jews who are the target of crazy conspiracy theorists. It is Jews who are said to secretly run the world.

    I am not joking about the shape-shifting lizards from the planet Nibiru. That is from David Icke who says our world leaders are those lizards.

    It is thought that he is using it as a dog-whistle for Nazis (to mean Jews). Certainly there is a disproportionate crossover between Nazis and Icke supporters.

    Icke also championed the 5G conspiracies, is an anti-vaxxer and thinks the moon is a hollow spaceship used by aliens to spy on us from. I can’t even…

    jarfil,

    I used to resent that Jews had a special word just for them: “antisemitism”

    “Antisemitism” is technically a BS word, just like the “Semitism” word it comes from. It was invented in the 1800s by some proto-Nazis, adopted in the 1900s by Nazis after the concept was already debunked, and continued in the 2000s by neo-Nazis. Nothing to be either jealous or proud of.

    Jews who are said to secretly run the world

    Somewhat ironically, not so secretly, and not a conspiracy.

    Since 70CE, all Jews have been required to both read and understand the Torah, while other religions relied on priests “interpreting” the sacred texts for uneducated peasants, leading to Jewish literacy levels of 70% or more in countries with otherwise a 3% or less during the Middle Ages. At the same time, both Christians and Muslims were forbidden from “usury”, or charging interest on loans (Muslim banking still is), but guess who wasn’t: Jews. And who’d guess it, the Diaspora meant there was one or a dozen Jews pretty much in every city. As commerce grew all over the world, merchants used to go to literate Jews, like the ones sitting on the bench (“banca”) in Florence, asking for loans and generally to do what nobody else was either capable or allowed to do, like letting them carry bank notes instead of coffers full of gold, redeemable at other “branches”. Big surprise, some centuries later, you can trace most of the financial world back to Jews, both the concepts and ownership.

    Also not a coincidence there have been so many famous Jewish artists, scientists or inventors. Anyone who’s got a problem with that, can thank their own religious ancestry for the cultural suicide.

    dog-whistle for Nazis (to mean Jews)

    …but of course it’s easier to blame the guys who got it right, while spreading further conspiranoic BS to dig an even deeper hole for one’s own culture. 🤦

    sqgl, (edited )

    Thanks. Your summary is great copypasta I will be using in future.

    I learned all about that from my Jewish friend (who is afraid to let people know. I used to think it was paranoid but after the rise of the cookers and Nazis, I now appreciate his caution).

    The only AI I fear is Augmented Idiocy. Covid will subside but the declining language and science literacy and numeracy is just getting worse. Flat earthers are on the increase FFS.

    sqgl,

    This bit I disagree with though:

    “Antisemitism” is technically a BS word, just like the “Semitism” word it comes from. It was invented in the 1800s by some proto-Nazis, adopted in the 1900s by Nazis after the concept was already debunked, and continued in the 2000s by neo-Nazis.

    BS or not the racist extremists, from what you tell us, made up the word Semitism so surely that warrants legitimate pushback with the term Antisemitism?

    jarfil,

    Both words were made by the same people, claiming a racial difference between those descending from semitic cultures and those who were not (this was already debunked by the 1920s). “Semitism” was intended as a pejorative, with “Antisemitism” being the idea of “cleansing” the society from the negative influence of “semitism”.

    It’s a made up Boogeyman used as an excuse to have something to push back against… and of course you can unite people around those ideas.


    As a freakishly recent example, right now I’ve been watching the news on TV here in Spain. There is a problem around choosing a president, with the opposition using every strategy they can to discredit the incumbent.

    One of the arguments they just decided to get up in arms about, is the incumbent just revealed agreed to forgive 15B€ of fiscal debt from one of the regions, which the representative of another region was being shown Live heavily criticizing, going on about how it should be all regions negotiating together, yadda yadda… and just then a news ticker goes by, stating that the incumbent has also agreed to forgive another 12B€ to the region of the guy just speaking Live. So much for “negotiating all together”!

    Boogeyman created, and debunked Live. Wish I had recorded it. 😄

    But wait, there’s more!

    Just then, they switched to the speaker for the opposition party, also Live, who started criticizing the incumbent for trying to agree on which days are going to be holidays and which work days, to fit in the voting calendar… news ticker goes by: opposition party, with majority in the Senate, tries to urgently pass a law change to delay the votes so they fall on holidays and the incumbent runs out of time.

    Seriously!? Two in the span of less than 10 minutes! 🔔🔔

    sqgl,

    Speaking of dodgy politicians: this ex lawyer-soldier pointed out how Australian military commanders were behaving illegally in Afghanistan and only acting to please politicians who in turn were only concerned with their own popularity (measured by polling).

    Nothing he said was untrue, but instead of investigating the war crimes the government is trying to throw him into jail for the rest of his life because, according to them, his whistleblowing compromised national security.

    youtu.be/56cleIKdt0c

    You will recognize the power games from Spain and every other country. This guy is a hero for challenging the system.

    sqgl,

    Clearly I need to read up more on the Antisemitism. You have inspired me.

    Your TV sounds like comedy. Yes it is indeed a shame you didn’t record it. Two in a short period of special but in future even if you could capture don’t individual occurrences it would make for a wonderful compilation. Perhaps they people running the ticker are hoping someone like you will do just that?

    sqgl,

    It was Arabs who did not accept those borders. They lost and Israel expanded.

    What I have more of a problem with is the settlers in the WB and that seems to be Bibi’s doing without much pushback from USA. Fascists gonna fasche.

    library_napper,
    @library_napper@monyet.cc avatar

    They were never given a vote. The UN voted to take away the Palestinians’ land, and the actual people living there weren’t given a single fucking vote in the issue.

    sqgl, (edited )

    What vote? I wasn’t talking about any election and neither was blazera (who correctly said Jews were given the land).

    I was talking about the 6 day war. Great animation showing the history here youtu.be/m19F4IHTVGc/

    library_napper,
    @library_napper@monyet.cc avatar

    The vote to create Israel in 1948

    jarfil,

    What vote?

    https://cdn.britannica.com/55/3355-050-C17CAACC/UN-partition-plan-Palestine-1947.jpg

    Timeline:

    • 1947 - The resolution was voted on by the UN
    • Arab countries didn’t accept it
    • Civil war between Zionists and non-Zionists
    • 1948 - A day before Britain’s retreat, Israel claims all the land
    • A day later, Arab countries attack Israel in order to "push the Jews into the sea"
    • Israel wins most of the land, except Gaza and Cisjordania

    Jews were given the land

    Well… kind of, but not really, not exactly that land, and the result wasn’t truly agreed upon by anyone.

    the 6 day war

    That’s in 1967. Israel wasn’t “given” any land there, it used a provocation by Egypt in order to claim all of it (and have Egypt give thanks for not claiming all of Sinai too… for now).

    sqgl,

    Jews were given the land

    Well… kind of, but not really, not exactly that land, and the result wasn’t truly agreed upon by anyone.

    They were given the land by UN at the start of the partition. I want discussing whether it was just.

    the 6 day war

    That’s in 1967.

    Yep, just as I said.

    Israel wasn’t “given” any land there

    Didn’t say it was dune in 1967. It was given by UN straight after WW2. I was being as brief as possible.

    It seems we agree on everything except the following. Hopefully you can clarify for me please…

    1948 - A day before Britain’s retreat, Israel claims all the land

    Not explicitly AFAIK. This is my understanding…

    Arabs were not OK with the UN partition but Jews were. Jews therefore understood that would mean Arabs would annul the partition as soon as the Brits exited so they declared independence from the day of the exit but I cannot find any borders mentioned. Then the Arabs really did attack.

    Do you know of any borders mentioned by Jews then? Did they state “we want to be observed of the Arab partitions?” Certainly that is how it ended up but was that the plan on Independence Day? Wikipedia is vague.

    jarfil,

    There is a funny tidbit on the Wikipedia page:

    Although Ben-Gurion had told the audience that he was reading from the scroll of independence, he was actually reading from handwritten notes because only the bottom part of the scroll had been finished by artist and calligrapher Otte Wallish by the time of the declaration (he did not complete the entire document until June)

    …gov.il/…/the-declaration-of-independence/

    Because there was no time to spare, the Declaration was read from a mimeographed sheet, and the 37 signatories – members of the Provisional Council of State – signed their names to a blank parchment sheet. The official copy of the Declaration was later inscribed by an artist.


    As for borders, by following the Declaration of Independence itself:

    THE STATE OF ISRAEL is prepared to cooperate with the agencies and representatives of the United Nations in implementing the resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947, and will take steps to bring about the economic union of the whole of Eretz-Israel.

    The UN resolution called for an economic union of “Israel and Palestine”, which would imply that “Eretz-Israel” was supposed to mean the whole land of the “Mandatory Palestine”.

    Prior to that:

    ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE’S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

    The British mandate was over the whole “Mandatory Palestine”… but the declaration talks about the State of Israel being “in Eretz-Israel”, without specifying any explicit borders.

    The “spirit” of the text can be interpreted as intended to follow the borders of the UN resolution… maybe.

    Since the resolution clearly was not accepted by the Arab states, it would require some further analysis whether that means Israel is supposed to prioritize establishing an economic union of the whole land, or strictly follow the resolution.

    sqgl,

    MVP! Thanks.

    So it sounds like the UN presumed the states would form a union (like the EU) without caring if the member states wanted it.

    Arabs I think were not happy even with the initial borders since Israel were a smaller population but handed a larger land area than Arabs. Maybe some anti-semitism too but that disparity must have stung.

    Israel was happy with the allotment and even with the union as long as they were the masters of the union. Islamophobia too perhaps.

    Chicken and the egg. Each side had a reason to distrust the other and it has just been spiralling ever since.

    Seems like Britain should have stayed on a few more years but were probably too tired after WW2.

    I am mainly learning only now. Are you also researching as we go or have you already familiarized yourself with much of the detail? Either way I appreciate having someone who is polite to discuss this with.

    jarfil,

    Indeed, the UN expected a sort of conjoined two-state arrangement.

    The problem with the Declaration of Independence, is that, not only it was signed before getting written, rising the question of whether should the notes, the speech, or the document crafted after the fact to be considered the “official” one… but also Israel still lacks a proper Constitution; it has a set of Basic Laws, the last one of which got approved in 2018, but it’s expected more should follow, so it can still be seen as a “not fully established” state, making stuff up on the go.

    Are you also researching as we go

    Some of this stuff I’ve double checked, but most had already looked up before. One thing it would be interesting to know more about, are the nuances in the Hebrew text of the Declaration of Independence… but my knowledge of Hebrew barely goes as far as realizing that the English version is not a word for word translation.

    sqgl,

    Maybe by reading multiple translations you can at least narrow down to which the problematic passages are so then you could concentrate on them with a fluent Hebrew speaker.

    I know one but it is hard to get him to stop once he gets started and he is right wing (I am left) so I don’t want to listen to his preaching. Nevertheless if you give me a specific question I will ask.

    bartolomeo,
    @bartolomeo@suppo.fi avatar

    There was also a lot of bribery and intimidation involved to get the vote to come out a certain way.

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    Why do i keep hearing it described like losing a game? Zionists invaded, murdered, and exiled palestinians from their land, that should "win" them nothing but opposition from the international community, same as happening with Russias invasion of Ukraine.

    sqgl, (edited )

    Why do i keep hearing it described like losing a game?

    What do you mean by “it”?

    I thought we were talking specifically about changes to the borders of what was given to them (irresponsibly?) by the Allies after WW2.

    The 6 day war in 1967 was initiated by surrounding Arab countries. Israel won that war and expanded into the Sinai and Gaza (Egypt), Golan Heights (Syria), West Bank and East Jerusalem (Jordan). They didn’t initiate the expansion. They then returned the Sinai to Egypt.

    Admittedly after that they did take more without provocation. The chipping away with settlements is happening to this very day.

    I just rewatched the above video in order to spell out the details. It is all new to me. Have a look yourself if you are genuinely interested in discussing the conflict. It really is well made and easy to follow (I dunno if there are errors though).

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    Nothing was ever given to them, only taken. They were living there already. They did not consent to being murdered and evicted from where they lived, and predictably they fought against it. That they lost against a much larger, internationally backed army invading their land doesnt exactly persuade me that they should lose their right to living there.

    sqgl, (edited )

    Nothing was ever given to them, only taken

    Who is “them”? I was talking about the land given to Jews by the colonisers: England and France.

    The 6 day war had a larger army on the Arab side. I dunno how much financial backing Israel had from USA or how it compared with the backing (if any) by the Arab oil states and I doubt you know or care either.

    I am trying to learn here, but you just insist on lazy mud slinging. Blocking you.

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    You and the rest of the world are blocking out the truth, not able to defend the indefensible actions of Israel.

    FlashMobOfOne,
    @FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org avatar

    Yeah, but siding with Israel here is the logical equivalent of siding with Andrew Jackson and supporting the Indian Removal Act as he committed genocide against the native people.

    The power imbalance and how Israel has used it is what makes it imperative that Israel be held accountable by the international community.

    knokelmaat,

    I’m glad you bring up the power imbalance. The “both sides have been doing horrible stuff” only works if both sides have equal footing, which they clearly do not. This does not negate the crimes commited by Hamas, but extremism doesn’t come from nowhere and Israël has a responsibility in that.

    library_napper,
    @library_napper@monyet.cc avatar

    Also disproportionate use of force is a war crime. We see Israel doing this in every war with Palestine since the Nakba.

    Akasazh,
    @Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

    I do agree the Hamas attack wasn’t the start of this. However tactically it was incredibly silly, honestly what did they think would happen?

    They gave Netanyahu, who was finally fumbling at the reigns after almost thirty years aan excuse to execute his wet dreams and all of Israel uniting behind him.

    I see no way how they could have thought the attack would benefit their cause.

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    I dont think people are appreciating the context of Gazans dying off. It wasnt a stable situation that was fine to continue as it was going, imagine youre locked in a room with a lunatic with a knife trying to kill you. Youre not likely to beat the lunatic, but youre gonna try, you dont have any other options.

    Waiting didnt work, protests didnt work, pleading with the international community didnt work, they cant leave. Everyone keeps saying they shouldnt have fought back, but what should they have done? Nothing is not available as an option.

    Akasazh,
    @Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

    I appreciate that and I have equated the current war to the Warsaw ghetto uprising. I’m not an apologist.

    However, as Sun Zu said, you must not interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake. Netanyahu’s might was failing. Israeli youth was rising up against him.

    It’s not like they absolutely needed to do this right now, and they could’ve quite easily understood what the response would be (maybe not the entire extent).

    Tactically it was stupid.

    t3rmit3,

    Israeli youth was rising up against him.

    “Rising up” insomuch as they were protesting his proposed changes, not in that they were contemplating actually removing him from power, or even trying to oust/disband/etc Likud.

    Akasazh,
    @Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

    Don’t you think that, however small, some action must take form?

    When I was small there were two conflicts that dividend public opinion and were sure to last centuries, those bring the Israel-Palestine conflict and the Irish one.

    I think that disengaging the murder spiral makes things better. Both the resentment of the Israeli youth against their more and more fascist government was an incredibly worthwhile step.

    Hamas and Likud alle don’t like any two state proposals, that’s why this is happening.

    t3rmit3,

    If I came into your house and drove you by force into the garage, I don’t think you’d want a “2-house solution” that allows you to live there, either.

    And no, I don’t think that essentially saying, “why don’t the Palestinians wait around being killed quietly, to see if the youths protesting today will massively change Israel’s trajectory when they get into politics in 20 years?” is a reasonable, measured, or humane stance.

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    What authority was netanyahu losing? Or are you just referring to there being some chance of him losing an election? Because Gaza did wait and see for several elections. He was just reelected in 2022. So apparently he's not being voted out.

    Akasazh,
    @Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

    The meddling with the court system had many Israelis protesting last spring.

    abcnews.go.com/International/…/story?id=98148726

    It became apparent to many how corrupt he was and trying to cement his position in anti constitutional measures.

    t3rmit3,

    Sure, but it wasn’t saving any Palestinians lives in the process OR the goal. Most Israelis weren’t opposing Netanyahu because they were against the Israeli genocide of Palestinians, they just didn’t like what he was doing to prevent punishment for his corruption. They wanted to replace him, but it would just be with another genocidal guy.

    Akasazh,
    @Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

    I don’t know. I remember both Rabin and Sharon, who briefly gave some hope in the nineties. It never materialized but it’s hope I must cling to. Just like the Irish managed to put their para military ways aside.

    The sad part of this attack is that that hoe is pushed back even further.

    So call me naive or a fool, but I keep hoping for a new generation that distances itself from the spiral of violence. It’s a feint hope, that got even more so due to this new horrible episode.

    bartolomeo,
    @bartolomeo@suppo.fi avatar
    Jamil,

    It all started when Israel showed up on the block and forcibly removed 700000 Palestinians from their homes. There’s no history before that worth discussing as it is archeological records, not history.

    Areas that were once 90% Palestinian, suddenly became 90% Jewish. Those people are still fighting to get their homes back, and Israel is continuing to evict Palestinians daily.

    The first step to a solution is to recognize that Israel’s goals are to ethnically cleanse the area and then work from there.

    TheSanSabaSongbird,

    They did a little more than simply “fight back.” They also engaged in widespread and utterly gratuitous acts of violence and torture in ways that can only have been calculated to trigger an overreaction on the part of Israel. They knew exactly what they were doing and what would happen. They obviously don’t give a fuck about their own people.

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    Where you getting torture from?

    tdawg, to memes in Thanks, Windows, I didn’t want my computer to turn off, anyway

    My favorite is when I shut it down and then it reboots into Ubuntu bc that’s my default in grub

    AVincentInSpace,

    me who uses rEFInd which remembers the last OS chosen and defaults to that: I don’t have such weaknesses

    ruckblack,

    Grub also has this feature lmao

    Vilian,

    lmao true

    RickyRigatoni,
    @RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml avatar

    so true bestie

    SeducingCamel,

    Lmao this just happened to me last night

    Duamerthrax,

    Oh god, I run hackintosh and had a problem for months that Win10n wouldn’t update correctly. Had to pull every drive but Win10 before it would update correctly, then properly corrupted itself and I had to do a fresh install anyway. POS OS.

    dipshit, to linuxmemes in Name em

    is this what it means to “own the libs”?

    GBU_28,

    If you got sudo, sure

    dipshit,

    with great power comes great responsibility!

    swab148,
    @swab148@startrek.website avatar

    That’s why I always log in as root

    dipshit,

    this guy fscks

    GBU_28,

    Hunter2

    dipshit,

    This incident will be reported.

    GBU_28,

    Huh? Somebody told me it would just be stars. Post yours you’ll see

    dipshit,

    What? All I am seeing is stars. That’s how I know you entered your password correctly. Passwords entered via this form input are automatically masked as stars.

    Karyoplasma,

    password123

    0x0,

    sudo chown -R $USER:$USER /usr/lib

    winterayars,

    I was gonna come in here and say “Joe Biden” but i couldn’t figure out how to turn it into a reference to the government spying on people.

    dipshit,

    Someone needs to watch some Snowden.

    TWeaK, to mildlyinteresting in CAPTCHA: Bot vs. Human. Bot wins.

    The point of captcha is for Google to track users, not to prevent bots.

    Hotzilla,

    No, the point is to train the AI.

    Ddhuud,

    Not anymore it ain’t. If they were to keep using it that way, bots’ scores would go down.

    TWeaK,

    That’s a side project, and doesn’t explain all the services that use it without images.

    Regardless, you always have to connect to 3 different domains - typically the website itself, google.com and gstatic.com. These 3 domains allow for very accurate triangulation across the internet, and each one will fingerprint your browser. They might not know your bank account number or social media account name, but they know that someone using your browser banks with this bank and has an account on that social media, along with thousands of other data points.

    name_NULL111653, to memes in just when you don't think about, bääm! a German.

    𝕯𝖎𝖊𝖘𝖊 𝕶𝖔𝖒𝖒𝖊𝖓𝖙𝖆𝖗𝖘𝖊𝖐𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓 𝖎𝖘𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖓 𝕰𝖎𝖌𝖊𝖓𝖙𝖚𝖒 𝖉𝖊𝖗 𝕭𝖚𝖓𝖉𝖊𝖘𝖗𝖊𝖕𝖚𝖇𝖑𝖎𝖐 𝕯𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖘𝖈𝖍𝖑𝖆𝖓𝖉

    Guildo,

    Du Nazi!

    Ozymandias1688,

    Fraktur = nazi? etwa ein /s verloren?

    Guildo,

    Du Grammarnazi!

    DarkwinDuck,

    Hä?

    MargotRobbie, to memes in venture capitalism goes brrr

    Lemmy’s biggest competitor at this point isn’t reddit, it’s Discord, or rather, the monster it has become. It seems to me that instead of creating a subreddit nowadays, every project now wants to use a Discord server for everything.

    The problem with that is:

    1. Asking messages in a big, open chatroom (over, say, 20 people) gets real messy, real quickly.
    2. Conversations on Discord are difficult to follow when multiple of them are going at once.
    3. The conversations containing solutions to problems in chat or threads are not search indexable, which is the reason why reddit became quietly dominant in search results, it is simply the biggest centralized repository of organized English language text conversations available.

    So why do people insist on using Discord servers to build their community? Simple, it’s the network effect. If somebody wants tech support, it’s way easier to click a Discord invite on an account for group chat you already have than it is to sign up for yet another forum that you only use once. But Lemmy doesn’t suffer from that problem of traditional forums because of federation.

    Which brings me to my point, if Lemmy is to grow, it’s better to sell Lemmy to disgruntled Discord admins and forum owners to move their community than it is to get people to move off reddit at this point, since people who wants to leave reddit has all done so at this point.

    feecoomeeq,

    Discord is the same problem for the internet as the Facebook grups were. Its hermetic, the info stays there, its hard to search thus the same problem is being asked over and over. StackOverflow and Reddit strength is that’s they are indexed and easy accessed

    HonorIsDead, (edited )

    Discord is really bad for preservation of information. I can still find forum posts from 10 years ago on a given topic all over, but discord links seem to expire and break all the damn time and it’s hard to search through. It sucks that discord has become the defacto choice for user community space.

    TunaLobster,

    Lenny does part of this yes. Fediverse is the bigger ticket item. From a single account I can federate to different networks and post questions or have other interactions in different formats.

    KrummsHairyBalls,

    Discord sucks, but I’ve actually had a 100% successful help rate on it vs Reddit or Lemmy.

    Typically Discord servers have specific tech support rooms, and you’ll get help pretty quickly. Only once I have had to ask my question a second time, because it was missed the first time.

    Meanwhile Reddit threads just get downvoted, buried, and you’re never helped. Even when I try to search for threads that other people have posted, 90% of threads are just blank.

    Lemmy is the worst. Doesn’t matter what you need, they’ll just call you stupid and tell you to use Linux and FOSS alternative, ignoring the fact you NEED to use what you’re asking help with.

    nephs,

    Maybe you just identified the need for an activity pub fediverse project specific to dev support/communities for tech projects.

    MrShankles,

    A forum should work in tandem with a chatroom in an “ideal” online community, imo. Searchable Q&A with a communication for additional, nuanced interaction. They serve different purposes and can be more powerful when used together, than they could be on their own.

    Lemmy does seem to have a bunch of old, crotchety internet nerds on here that like the “old ways” of the webs. But just tell 'em to “go fuck yourself”, if they’re being a dick; and than don’t reply to them again. It’s very freeing. They’re just butt sensitive about linux and foss, cause they were bullied on early internet forums and now act the same way, when expressing their loud-ass opinions. It’s like an unfortunate cycle of abuse that has existed on forums, but don’t let it discourage you from asking anyway… the question might help others

    I’m a crotchety old internet nerd… tell me to “go fuck myself”, just for funsies! It’s empowering!

    And also… fuck you buddy, get good!

    Truck_kun, (edited )

    I feel like Discord fills a different need than forum type systems.

    The one API I have on discord, likes Discord as a place for casual chat about the system. I think the devs prefer it because it is an active place for the community; to word it better, ‘hey look at this cool thing I did’ > response within a few minutes ‘that’s cool’ heart^5 fire^3 thumbs up^7. Whereas on a forum you’d be waiting for hours, or just not have that casual of a conversation.

    It replaces the old usage of IRC servers.

    The help channel is highly responsive, and great for things you want a quick chat about, need a response now, or if you get help now great, but if not, you’ll figure it out on your own before you would ever get help on a forum, so it’s not worth posting to a forum.

    Threads really do help organize when a discussion is going to be large, and discord is very much searchable, just not from your browser search engine.

    For changes to the API, ideas, issues, or bugs, they direct you to github “Discussions” or “Issues”. They do have an idea discord channel, but it’s a more casual thing, or far out there discussions.

    Discord does get a lot of hate for it’s searchability, which is valid, but I don’t have a problem with it as long as places like Stack Overflow (or what replaces it) are still around.

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