I found it hilarious when many California farmers (e.g. fruits) voted for Trump, then got angry when he immediately started cutting back on immigration - like what the hell did you think he meant when he talked about that EVERY SINGLE TIME!? That man isn’t exactly known for using “metaphors” or having the slightest degree of “subtlety” - e.g. when he talks about grabbing pussy, he doesn’t mean getting to know someone intimately, he means to GRAB someone’s ACTUAL genitalia, which simply being within arms reach seems to imply automatically giving consent, and if not then you can take it up with his team of lawyers.
After that, people started dying, and other things happened like infants were literally ripped right out of their mothers’ arms and I suddenly found it less funny:-(.
I guess arguably it could be funny to think how liberals get mad when the Democrats they vote for do not do what they promised, yet Trump supporters got mad at him when he did - if that situation were not so fucking tragic for us all:-(.
he immediately started cutting back on immigration
Except he didn’t, really. The fucking wall was a joke, not something that would ever actually stop illegal immigrants. If conservatives really wanted to stop illegal immigration, they would go after the employers who hire them - something we will never see.
Whether or not his administration managed to cut back on illegal crossings (mainly ICE raids I would guess), he definitely and dramatically did cut back on legal visas offered. Thus farmers, who relied heavily upon those with temporary work visas, panicked there during the first year of his administration, e.g. nytimes.com/…/california-farmers-backed-trump-but….
If conservatives really wanted to stop illegal immigration, they would go after the employers who hire them
Conservatives never really want to accomplish most of their stated goals - it’s like a dog chasing after a car, they wouldn’t know what to do if they ever caught it. The catch is that Trump isn’t actually conservative, he simply used those talking points, too dumb to realize that he wasn’t supposed to mean any of it:-P.
He also wasn’t Republican either, although there he won, since he hollowed out the Republican party, laid his eggs inside its brain and now he controls the corpse. I think McCarthy was the last vestige of a Tea Party style fiscal conservative, and now the Alt Right has taken complete control, even as they already have started eating their own and demolishing that from the inside with an even more hardcore line, where e.g. the infamously extreme Fox News is no longer extreme enough.
But anyway, yeah if they truly wanted to stop immigration that is what would need to be done, but they don’t be it’s such an easy talking point that they’ve invested so much effort into, they can’t afford to lose out on it now by actually solving the damn thing!:-P
I did like his debate with Hillary though. He completely burried her with the taxes thing, Soros and all that. He may be an ass, but he was dead on about that. Everyone uses the system, even the democrats.
Surely there are things that he says that I would even agree with - though I more often question how he says them (that is not me down-voting you though to be clear - a respectful conversation as you are doing is always welcome in my book).
e.g. I agreed with Hillary Clinton on the “ninth-month abortion” topic - there are only less than a handful of those all across the country, and at that point there is 0% chance that they are from irresponsible loose women forgetting to take a pill (or whatever the thinking is there) and 100% chance that it is a huge medical complication. Her answer there was “politicians should not be dictating such matters - that is a subject best left up to the experts and the patient to decide together”. She may be corrupt as sin and her answers were all focus-tested prior to delivery but… nevertheless she was right about that, imho.
Whereas his answer was “baby killer” - as if this literally heart-rending occurrence where the life of the mother is at stake and the loss of the fetus is virtually a foregone conclusion at that point was all besides the point.
They BOTH played the game in their respective ways there. And while I may not have liked her, I did like her answers, while his to that question was so incredibly juvenile that I could hardly believe my ears and eyes, seeing it from the leading candidate of an actual Presidential race. (btw funny video about it - she goes first but don’t worry, after the first minute he comes with some really great jabs:-P)
I would encourage you to remember though that even if you enjoyed his performance in the debate: he is so dumb that other people ended up pulling most of his strings after he got into office, and he never even realized how much he was being manipulated - in fact he still does not, years after-the-fact. Trump is not “conservative”, nor even quite “Republican” so much as a mad bull tearing through the china shop breaking everything that he pleases touches. A vote for him is a vote for anarchy, which sounds fun only to those who have neither experienced it nor studied history to realize what it truly means. imho at least, ofc take with a grain of salt (i.e. be properly skeptical), except it also happens to be shared by most people who study most matters all across the nation world. When the experts (almost) all agree on something, it is either the largest conspiracy of all time ever, or else it just might be true!
I agree that everyone uses the system… but not equally. She would have been a horrible President - more than half the nation agreed with you on that so hard that they outright handed the election to him (with deeds, not merely words) - but that does not in turn mean that he was a good one, and especially that he would be again.
Her answer there was “politicians should not be dictating such matters - that is a subject best left up to the experts and the patient to decide together”. She may be corrupt as sin and her answers were all focus-tested prior to delivery but… nevertheless she was right about that, imho.
Yep, do agree, she was right about that.
Though I also think she kinda did it to avoid answering… it’s a delicate subject, people get emotional, and she may lose votes if she doesn’t pass the hot potato.
(btw funny video about it - she goes first but don’t worry, after the first minute he comes with some really great jabs:-P)
Love those guys 😂. My favorite was with Stalin, Lennin and Yelcin 😂. Too bad they stopped doing them… at least I think they did 🤔.
I would encourage you to remember though that even if you enjoyed his performance in the debate: he is so dumb that other people ended up pulling most of his strings after he got into office, and he never even realized how much he was being manipulated - in fact he still does not, years after-the-fact. Trump is not “conservative”, nor even quite “Republican” so much as a mad bull tearing through the china shop breaking everything that he pleases touches. A vote for him is a vote for anarchy, which sounds fun only to those who have neither experienced it nor studied history to realize what it truly means. imho at least, ofc take with a grain of salt (i.e. be properly skeptical), except it also happens to be shared by most people who study most matters all across the nation world. When the experts (almost) all agree on something, it is either the largest conspiracy of all time ever, or else it just might be true!
Yep, I do agree about everything, he’s really just stupid.
But, you have to hand it to him. He just straight up answers, no beating around the bush. To (low IQ) people, that says “aaah, he’s honest”. The truth is, he’s a liar as well (what politician isn’t, lol 😂), but he’s a “truthful liar”. He answers like he doesn’t give AF, alfa male through and through attitude, f you attitude as well and… well, you gotta hand it to him, that wins low IQ hearts 😂. The trouble is, they have just as much right to vote as the rest of us 😂.
I think it is more complicated than that but… yeah - she is a soulless robot who would do, and say, ANYTHING to win. For instance, does anyone at all think that she actually carries around hot sauce in her purse everywhere that she goes? She said that, but she did not mean it. She is a politician and she LIED.
Also, Trump was not a politician, but he LIED too - remember when he said, before the primary, that if he won it then he would change the rules? However, immediately after that he said “why should I bother - I WON!?” Also, I seem to recall some chant of “lock her up”, but then immediately after that he was all like “why would do that? she’s nice people - she came to my wedding” Also, the Bob Woodward interview where he told him that he was going to lie in the future, saying that covid was not transmissable by air, and yet it was. Also… well, there’s a lot of examples, just like with her. So Hillary does not have a monopoly on lying.
Even so, her actions do tend to back up what she said: she tended to listen to experts, and the pandemic would have killed far fewer people if she had been in charge. She lies so often that sometimes she even tells the truth, just by accident? :-P So I think she would have followed up on that topic just as she said - not b/c she cared but just b/c it would be most politically expedient to have done so.
That said, she didn’t seem to genuinely care for anything but her own fame & glory (hey, remember when the Supreme Court told her to send over all of her emails, and she told them to take a hike? well, more precisely she told them that she’d do it when she felt like it, but only AFTER she removed all the ones that she didn’t want them to see - THAT IS WHAT SHE ACTUALLY SAID!?!?!?!). Though again, how was Trump any different? They are both shitty people, it’s just that Americans knew more about her than we did him, hence why the vote wasn’t so much “pro-Trump” as it was “anti-Hillary”, and we basically just rolled the dice to see whatever anti-Hillary would end up doing. It did not work out well, though it may not have worked well under her either - Congress would still have been flat-out broken either way, and neither would have helped heal the divide in this nation. Both sides need to stop putting up these jokers and put up someone who MAKES SENSE! :-(
Yes, he does answer questions more simply - if that were the only criteria for someone to be President then he should have won, in fact it’s a large part of why he did. And she answers questions with more weasly-worded phrases that mean nothing so as to let the medium-IQ people delude themselves into thinking that they are high-IQ ones (“hey, she said the thing that I wanted!? I’m so smart to have figured that out” - uh… no she didn’t, in fact if you pay attention, she ended up saying nothing at all). But if the question is “what is 1+1?”, then the answer is neither -1000000000000 (Democrats) nor “ur stUpId” (Republicans), so I firmly believe that neither side is working in our bests interests. On the other hand, one side is ready to literally overthrow the Constitution of the United States of America, even while claiming to do it out of love for that very document (which many admit to never having read in the first place).
I’m going to say something possibly controversial: not only do dumb people have just as much right to vote as smart ones, but smart people are not better people. That said, I am not looking to have a beer with the President of the United States, I want them for their role as a LEADER, for which yes a minimum level of intelligence should be required. Like in a football game, a certain minimum level of athletic prowess should be mandatory? So why look out into the audience and choose one of them, ignoring the ones who have trained for many years to become great at it? The only answer I can come up with is that people hated Hillary THAT MUCH - hence why she is the one who put him in office, arguably much more than he did. He was just trying to promote his latest reality TV show:-P.
Both sides need to stop putting up these jokers and put up someone who MAKES SENSE! :-(
I don’t think that will happen any time soon. If anyone with half a brain and not easily controllable comes in, you know what happens to those people… it’s a sad world we live in unfortunatelly…
And she answers questions with more weasly-worded phrases that mean nothing so as to let the medium-IQ people delude themselves into thinking that they are high-IQ ones (“hey, she said the thing that I wanted!? I’m so smart to have figured that out” - uh… no she didn’t, in fact if you pay attention, she ended up saying nothing at all).
Exactly, I’ve seen it 1000 times from different politicians. You hear what he’s/she’s saying and I’m like “uuuummm… am I stupid or did he/she didn’t answer anything 🤨?”. I’ve even rewond on cable to hear the conversation again… and the anchor is like “mhm, mhm, yeah… moving on…”… like how the fuck was that an answer 🤨. You just pulled out a lot of fancy words and said nothing.
But if the question is “what is 1+1?”, then the answer is neither -1000000000000 (Democrats) nor “ur stUpId” (Republicans), so I firmly believe that neither side is working in our bests interests.
Oh yeah, I’m way past that 😂. There was a time that I believed that at least some of the time they’re working in our interest. Not at all 😂. It just so happens that their business interests for that particular thing allign with the interests for the greater good 😂. And everyone praises them and they do press bullshit and whatnot… if people knew the reality, they’d be discuisted.
I’m going to say something possibly controversial: not only do dumb people have just as much right to vote as smart ones, but smart people are not better people.
Meeh, would agree. If you’re smart that doesn’t mean your moral compass is working correctly.
The only answer I can come up with is that people hated Hillary THAT MUCH - hence why she is the one who put him in office, arguably much more than he did.
I think it was a stunt in order to ensure Trump wins. But it had to be believable, so they couldn’t put a dummy out, so they pulled her out. Everyone hates her, everyone knows she’s a liar, smart, but a liar… my 2 cents.
Damn, I love Dave Chappelle 😂. Liberals started hating him, but I think he just does what he does and just doesn’t give AF. Sure, he was a lot less into politics and life lessons and bitching about other people back in the day, but people fail to understand that he is way older now. Back then he used to be young, and well, when you’re young, you just don’t have life experience and don’t fully grasp what’s going on in the world, so you make jokes about weed and drinking and hoes, etc. But, as you get older, you see things just repeat in circles, things don’t get solved, yet politicians promise they will eventually get solved, and you start wondering, why don’t they get solved 🤔. And then you start looking deeper into things and after a while realize that the idea is for those things to stay as they are. If they change, we’d have to actually star working and caring about the people’s best interests, not our own, so why do that.
I completely get his POV, he’s not right, he’s not left, he’s homophobic (hey, no one’s perfect 🤷), but he’s a good comedian, and I believe a good person. He might say shit, but he will help you out if you need help.
Some people say that Biden has half a brain… and I think they are right!
Oddly enough, I don’t care - he seems to be doing… I cannot say “well”, but given what he faced when he first came in, definitely a far better job than I expected. At this point even if he were a robot puppet animated by people feeding his lines to him, I no longer care b/c it would be those handlers that we would be voting for. And yet would Kamala jump to the same tune as he does, or like Trump ignore the briefings and strike out on her own? So once again, we devolve to a “Hillary vs. Trump”, now “Kamala vs. Trump” standoff, each side trying to play chicken, daring the other side to back off. The truly heart-breaking tragic part of it is that in such a game, it is no guarantee that either side will “win”, and at some point it becomes quite likely that BOTH will lose.
I’ve spent a great deal of time trying to understand the weasel-wording, and what I came up with is this: anytime politicians say ANYTHING at all, they get judged for it, by some nutjobs somewhere. God exists, God does not exist, God exists and he loves people, God may or may not exist and he hates people, God yes/no exists and yes/no whatever whatever people, except he loves/hates YOU in particular, and so on. So the trick is to please the highest number of people by… saying nothing at all. Except that is too easily detected, hence the weasel wording, where they talk… but do not communicate. Then to complicate matters 1000x further, you are supposed to ignore all of that, and just focus on their voting record. Yes, ALL of those debates, the ENTIRE reason for their existence, is the profit of the media companies trying to sell them. They don’t “decide” anything, except for the tiniest, slimmest, barest sliver of people in the absolute middle who haven’t already made up their minds who they are going to vote for. Which might not even be 1% of the nation, though b/c of how polarized we are right now, might just swing the tide anyway?
So think of it like car salesmen: oh you are so smart, wow you have such a good eye, you know most people do not think to ask such insightful questions - BULLSHIT! And yet… you need a car anyway, right? It is extremely distasteful to anyone that prefers Truth over LIES, but what other way is there, than to engage in politics, or not engage and just watch the world burn? (This is fine meme)
And no I think Hillary literally thought that she would win - she managed to bully just about everyone on her own side from even so much as running (except Bernie Sanders who didn’t give a shit, and one other guy that nobody had heard of on the national scale), and then one of the various email leaks about her showed her illegal collusion with the DNC (e.g. she was given the questions that would be asked during the debate in advance, whereas he was not - giving her an enormous advantage). So “legally” (ha!) or not, she was going to push past all obstacles and take what she wanted by force. Arguably Trump may even have been put there to help HER win, but she seems to have underestimated just how much people HATED her, passionately even. Oopsie.
I mean, why would Trump want to take a huge pay cut to run the WH? Simply reading a teleprompter in front of a TV screen was a much sweeter gig - far less effort, plus far less grief too. Though once she lost, ahem I mean he “won”, his ego would not let him turn it down. Remember how he wanted to try and do both - be President and still do that TV show that he had previously signed a contract for!? :-P
I don’t think Dave Chappelle is homophobic, though he’s definitely transphobic, and there’s really something to that, as he explains: other people have a right to do whatever they want, but when YOU start telling ME what to do (i.e. in terms of mandatory pronoun usage), that’s the line that should not be crossed. Your rights (should) end where mine begin, and all that. And yeah, I do think he’d be friends with a trans person even - you don’t have to agree with someone 100% to enjoy one another’s company.:-D Though he’s tired of bending over backwards to all the woke BS, and so he draws the line in the sand - this far but no further. Bill Maher has switched to doing that now also - I used to not be able to stand that pretentious asshole, but now I see how often he’s right and thus he’s grown on me in spite of that.
BTW, if you want to watch a fairly short video that could literally change your view of politics forever - hey, I genuinely am not kidding on that! - here it is: www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs. I have re-watched it many times over the last several years and still cannot wrap my head around it. It uses LOGIC and FACTS but… I don’t wanna follow where it leads:-(. Brainwashing cultural/societal influence from all of the various sources like Hollywood movies and just flat crowd-think from talking to almost literally everybody has quite a strong effect, and I realize that I am still under its sway. So anyway, be warned: this video can fuck you up, bigly :-| - but it does have the benefit of being true.
Hm… I think you may have a point about Trump being a scapegoat for Hilary’s win. Never saw it like that, but yeah, you do have a point. His I don’t give AF attitude, his lack of word filtering (than again, republicans are like that, lol 😂)… not something a presidential candidate should be proud of, lol. And he is proud of that, you could tell, lol 😂.
From his POV, I can understand running for president. I mean, the man’s accomplished in almost every other aspect in life. The only other thing he wasn’t really balls in deep was politics, so he probably thought, this is my chance, now or never.
And yeah, I do think he’d be friends with a trans person even - you don’t have to agree with someone 100% to enjoy one another’s company.:-D
That’s why I can’t say anything bad about the guy, even if he is homphobic or transphobic or whatever. I mean, no one’s perfect, he is like he is, and that’s fine, main thing is, he’s not a bad person.
Regarding the video, I actually presumed as much. Still, it was a nice video, watched it till the end. Facts are facts 🤷.
But, did you notice what was the root of the problem? I have, just haven’t phrased it like that and haven’t analyzed the subject like the guy on that channel has - money. Always have been, always will be. It litelarly is the root of all evil and unfairness. The more you have, the more you want. Actually, it’s not exactly money per say, it’s just that money manifests this human trait all too well. It’s greed.
I’ve thought about this long and hard and no matter how I try and salvage things, to be as much as they are now, I always end up with the same conclusion. Radical changes have to be made in order for us to survive as a species. Our economic and social structures, as well as what (currently) defines us as himan. Well, maybe not that last part (at least not extesively), but yes, we do have to evolve and completely drop, on a species level, some things that we hold on to so dearly. Trouble is, humans only unite when faced with grave danger on a global scale, so… this will probably never happen in our lifetime, but if we were to survive, it must happen.
Biden also has word salads, but yeah at least he isn’t proud of it. I suppose the thinking is that anti-establishment means that whatever THEY do, you should do the exact opposite? Except that is not how adulting works - the way you can spot a counterfeit is to know the geniune article so well that nobody can lie to you and pass off something false as being true. Simply being “not happy” with existing policies is not a good direction to move “forward” in. So instead of e.g. Christians asking “WWJD = What Would Jesus Do?”, they instead ask what Obama would do and then do the polar opposite? So like Obama passed the Affordable Care Act, so I guess the opposite is to, what, kill off all the poor people? (shit, I didn’t mean for this to be so accurate!)
Chappelle is a literal genius, or at least a really smart, very insightful dude. Some people do not like him, I assume b/c they do not understand him (or maybe… b/c they do?:-P). His early work I did not enjoy as much, but then I reflect that it was a different time then, and what seems blasé today was for back then a revolutionary thing. I especially appreciate his insights into racial matters - e.g. that story about a trans person who is white in Texas being “passing”, whereas Dave can never ever change the color of his skin, so they really truly are fundamentally different.
That CPG Grey video really messed ME up. A lot of liberals start thinking “well this is the way the world SHOULD be” - but that is stupid thinking (unfortunately modern conservatives do not have a monopoly on stupidity, or more precisely lack of wisdom, which is not always the same thing, and presence of obstinacy to persist in spite of all the facts pointing in the opposing direction), and instead what actually WORKS is when we are humble enough to realize the way that the world actually DOES work, and then move forward from there. e.g. imagine trying to make a rocket that can go into space, maybe even reach the moon - none of the “feels like” statements (I kinda feel like I want to paint it red and blue, and add sparkles to it - THAT might make it go further?) are going to make it go one inch further, and it is only when we start asking how physics truly works, and then submitting to that so that our actions match our thinking, will we actually be able to achieve the goal.
And I feel like Chappelle gets that. Heck, even Trump gets that, though then he twists it and uses it for his own ends - like yeah he does know how to avoid paying taxes, and that helps the common American HOW exactly?!? Biden also seems to get it, which surprised the hell out of me, though Kamala absolutely does not, preferring instead to blame everyone rather than herself.
About money being evil: consider the related statement that “Guns don’t kill people - people kill people”, which is both a true statement and also misleading b/c guns really do help to kill people, as opposed to lets say a knife or a bow & arrow. Guns not only increase the rate with which humans can be dispatched, but also they increase the ease with which even singular ones can be taken down, by lowering the barriers - simply point and click and if you hit your target in a vital spot, it’s all over for them. Get dumped by your girlfriend? Get a gun and show her who is boss! Teacher gave you an F, or maybe even an A- but you wanted an A? Same. It shortens the effort required to go from initial thought to deed completion, and thus facilitates traveling that pathway more readily, without barriers, and also more quickly, before you have time to cool off or get distracted. In comparison, in Australia unregistered guns are illegal, and while people can still purchase them in an unregulated black market, it costs almost as much as a cheap house, like $40k (this figure was from a decade ago so probably a lot more now with inflation!) - always assuming ofc that they don’t decide to kidnap you and use you for organ harvesting or some such. That puts some barriers back up, so that people must take time to cool off before purchasing one, in order to fulfill their wish. Also younger people are less likely to have that kind of cash on-hand, so the most brash members of society have the least access to those dangerous weapons. i.e., mainly it is people that kill people, and yet guns do significantly help with that.
Similar to the above statement, money both directly warps a person’s mind - studies show that people literally change their actions when they start to get some, e.g. becoming fearful that others will try to come & take it - plus also the greed aspect affects people far more, even if they do not have any actual money itself. Though not everyone is greedy - there are so many stories of people that e.g. win the lottery and donate all of the funds to charity. Being forewarned is forearmed, and some people are more careful than others to avoid letting greed take over their lives. I actually think Biden is that way - his wife comes from the Heinz ketchup fortune so is extremely wealthy, and neither of them would ever need to work a single day for the rest of their lives, and yet that old man instead of taking naps all day (as many of us would prefer!) gets up every day and works himself to the bone. Yeah he surely has his selfish reasons too, like wanting to be remembered as someone who did great things - which is a good thing? - but his actions at least do not match what I would consider “greed”. Whereas Trump on the other hand… that pussy-grabbing MFer will take every last tiny bit that he can get! :-P
About our survival: I watch a lot of sci-fi, and I have read even more of that. I agree with you that we might end ourselves, but I also think that it is possible for populations to go in “cycles”, and while we might kill off oh let’s say 90% of humanity on earth, even so the rest of us might remain, and grow all the stronger as a result of learning from our trials. That’s the key btw: EVALUATED EXPERIENCES - some people never learn, either from their own mistakes or those of others, but some people are open to learning, and they will have a much greater chance of being okay… like a Jew that moved out of Germany, before other Jews were thrown into the furnaces: if you pay attention, I happen to think that the outcome is more likely to be better than if you do not. That does not seem like a fully natural mental state: it is far easier to just go to sleep and conserve energy, hence the drag/pull towards laziness each and every day. But if we resist laziness, and greed, and other mental ills, then past history shows that such people as that do that DO end up with far better lives.
But… we aren’t all going to make it. Some people are simply too stupid - I should stop using that word btw, when really I mean obstinate - to survive. Trying the same thing over and over, hoping for a different results the next time - that simply is not a winning strategy, 999,999,999 times out of a billion.
We just played the anti-immigrant game in Florida. Harsh legislation passed, they ran away, and fuck me, crops are rotting in the fields.
There were a couple of business owners brave enough to say it out loud on video. “Well, yeah, we wanted this legislation, but just to kinda scare 'em. We didn’t think we’d actually lose our workers! Maybe we gotta rethink this whole thing.”
Props to those few self-aware SeaWolves. Some are getting it.
If you want slave labor, you gotta put up with slaves living on the plantation.
Yup. They are playing a dangerous game of Russian Roulette, hoping it won’t be them that actually gets the blast. Or maybe “chicken” is a better phrasing - which side will blink first? The one who cares least about losing is the one that “wins”, except can you call that winning, REALLY?
Like, hey I have an idea, let’s beat up all the nerds, who actually like… think and stuff… and junk. THAT will surely turn out alright? :-(
It reminds me of how Kansas lowered taxes, then went bankrupt, then did it again, then wanted to do it AGAIN!? (then other states wanted to follow suit - it really is a repeating pattern, where nobody ever learns the lessons of even just a handful of years prior) There, they stuck microphones in the farmers faces (farmers would have been the top benefactors of lowering taxes in that state) and asked them what they would do if taxes were lowered - would they “create jobs”? Their answers were absolutely priceless. “No… (looks with disgust on their faces) why (the fuck) WOULD we!?” They even went into detail - there is only so much crop out there, you can’t simply hire more workers and somehow magically get more profits. Plus Americans don’t want to work those jobs anyway, plus they already manage to get the tasks done as it is, what possible reason would they want to hire on more people for, especially stable jobs, for American citizens? So then the reporters would ask what they would do with all that extra money. “I dunno… prolly put it in the bank, I guess?”
Apparently “JOBS” is a magical 4-letter word that if you lower taxes on the wealthy, somehow just magically materializes. Meanwhile the actual job creators are saying… not so much. Companies like Garmin in Kansas want a nice workplace for their workforce - they want hospitals, roads, bridges, and the like. If they wanted to live in Mississippi or Florida, then they would move there, but they do not. i.e., they WANT to pay taxes, or at least benefit from a place where taxes have been paid into, in the past.
So Republicans in Kansas lowered taxes, supposedly for the sake of the farmers, except even the majority of farmers did not want that, and then the entire state went bankrupt, AGAIN.
But by all means, let’s try it still yet again, on the scale of the entire nation this time, and against the will of the majority of voters - surely that will end well once more? :-( (to clarify, I mean that it will work out well for Putin, and really if you stop to think about it, that is all that matters… right? RIGHT!?)
And these things don’t shoot you if you look at them wrong – or are black.
Edit: “No, you can’t just stick a camera worth a couple of thousand [local currency] next to the road, that takes photographic evidence of infractions. You gotta rip out the entire surface, redesign the sides and introduce a few sharp curves by demolishing a few blocks of buildings here and there. In the mean time speed is only enforced by violent cops who feel like you were speeding.
I can’t believe that people don’t want to see them installed in every school zones at least, if there’s one place where you don’t want people speeding it’s there!
“It’s a road design issue!” Yeah? What’s cheaper and can be done quicker, changing the road design or installing speed cameras?
Yeah people not respecting speed zones around schools is a real problem. I can’t believe how people drive, and I’ve always got some Dodge Ram or Ford F150 riding my ass because I’m driving the proper speed.
Even if there was no posted speed limit, there are children everywhere and children are unpredictable.
They also can’t testify in court, depriving accused speeders of their constitutional right to due process.
But back to your first claim: “gotta enforce speed limits:” No, we do not. Speeding is a symptom of a street that was designed wrong to begin with. The correct solution is to fix the design, not install a speed camera as some sort of big brother band-aid.
Edit: why do y’all apparently hate the idea of improving street design? As a former traffic engineer, I’m telling you that that’s the only way to truly fix the problem of speeding. I don’t get why that’s controversial.
I’m a big fan of NJB (shout out to !notjustbikes), but I’m not going to argue against speed cameras. That’s ridiculous. Yes, if I have to choose one or the other I’ll take the better road design. But even with good road design, some people will choose to be dicks because they can, or they see it as a challenge or some shit. And speed cameras can be implemented right now, whereas better road design waits (even in the Netherlands!) until that street is next due for repaving.
I don’t find improving road safety through intelligent engineering controversial, I think blaming the street design instead of the idiot deciding to speed through it is controversial. In the end it is the driver who accelerated, not the road engineer.
In fact I actually like how much attention has been brought over the past years to road design. I’ve always been scared of cars.
Sorry but it’s a black and white thing in this case, r either you’re under the speed limit and not breaking the law or you’re over the speed limit and breaking the law.
Also, tons of people object to speed camera tickets and win, the only difference is that there’s no officer there when the event happened to tell them “Say that to the judge if you’re not happy.”, the end result is the same.
Never said it was fine, I said the issue lies elsewhere and the solutions we’re currently taking about aren’t the ones that will solve it.
If the speed limit is too high it’s an administrative decision, they won’t change the road design because they decided to have a high speed limit, a speed camera or a police officer won’t charge people who are driving fast unless they’re going over the speed limit that’s already too high.
So you consider the law to be the definition of safety?
My question was intended to get you think about the fact that laws (and speed limits) are made by people, with all their flaws and biases, and they don’t always do a good job.
Sorry but it’s a black and white thing in this case, r either you’re under the speed limit and not breaking the law or you’re over the speed limit and breaking the law.
Your words make it sound like you think the speed limit is some objective truth that cannot be questioned.
It can be questioned, not enforcing them isn’t questioning them and won’t make them change, if people disagree with the speed limit somewhere they can complain to the authorities responsible, in the meantime is still the limit and you’re breaking the law by not respecting it. It’s the same thing with every laws and is the reason why when they change, criminals don’t suddenly get released from prison because the law they broke doesn’t exist anymore.
Ever heard of the social contract theory?
Heck, what if I believe that school zones are bullshit and want to do 50mph in them and it’s the kids responsibility to act safely? Would you defend my right to drive 50mph because you believe I have the right to question the speed limit in school zones this way or would you tell me to address the right people and live with the current limits until they’re changed?
We also need to keep in mind the mechanism it is using to detect speed. If it uses radar it will need regular calibration. Handheld units for example are supposed to be spot checked before and after each shift with tuning forks and sent back to the manufacturer to be recalibrated every 6 months or so.
Lidar and optical flow most likely have different requirements, but I am not as familiar with them.
Sorry but it’s a black and white thing in this case, r either you’re under the speed limit and not breaking the law or you’re over the speed limit and breaking the law.
This isn’t actually true. It’s entirely possible to be breaking the law while driving under the speed limit: “driving too fast for conditions” is very much a thing.
But that’s beside my point, which really was just that changing the design of the street to make people not want to speed in the first place is way more effective (and frankly, way less totalitarian) than punishing them after-the-fact for doing so.
“Driving too fast for conditions” won’t be enforced by cameras, will still exist if the road is modified and is 100% subjective which is a problem speed cameras don’t have so you should be happy about that.
It might be more effective, it’s still not possible to change all roads as quickly as speed cameras can be deployed.
It’s also a very stupid argument, that’s like saying “If that person didn’t want me to steal from them they shouldn’t have left their car unlocked.” The rule is there, it’s your responsibility to respect it no matter what the road looks like. Both things need to be used in conjunction, roads need to be adapted to their limit but you need something to enforce the limits too.
What would you prefer? That some people drive slightly over the speed limit? Or a spot where people suddenly slam on the brakes to avoid getting a ticket, endangering those who might be behind them with their sudden change of speed?
Because the latter is what these devices tend to do.
Show me evidences that they increase accidents please, I’ve provided two sources showing they work in another comment, surely you can provide one that they cause accidents.
Bullshit. You are allowed to cross examine your accuser which you can’t do for a camera. It is not the same. Random tech should not be judging humans for crimes.
No. Although they often go hand-in-hand, it is possible to either piss people off without them doing anything in response or to incite people to feel the need to pass you without them getting mad about it.
why do y’all apparently hate the idea of improving street design? As a former traffic engineer,
I think people are intuitively understanding that it’s not really a possibility in a country as large as America. There are only 139,000 km of public roads in the Netherlands, compared to 6,743,151 km of roads in America. We also have different types of traffic compared to the Netherlands, more large vehicles and people without access to public transportation for daily commutes. Compounding all this with the fact that the federal government has no control of how most of these roads are built… It’s understandable why people don’t see this as realistic option.
I think people are intuitively understanding that it’s not really a possibility in a country as large as America.
Their cynical intuition is wrong, though, and the “large country” argument in particular falls apart at the slightest scrutiny. So what if we have more roads? We have commensurately more traffic engineers, too! There is no excuse not to design properly.
We also have different types of traffic compared to the Netherlands, more large vehicles and people without access to public transportation for daily commutes.
Vehicle size is irrelevant. Lack of access to public transportation is indeed a problem; however, in general “we shouldn’t fix problem A because we also have problem B” is not a valid argument. It just means you should fix problems A and B.
Compounding all this with the fact that the federal government has no control of how most of these roads are built…
Sigh… look, you’re not wrong to argue that that’s a popular perception; however, that’s much more a consequence of the shitty state of civics education than it is an accurate description of reality. There’s a bunch of different ways the Federal government exerts control, including things like taxation and funding (including for state- and local-maintained roads in a lot of cases, not just U.S. Highways) and collaboration between the FHWA (government) and AASHTO (industry) on design standards. It’s more complicated than just a unitary central government dictating things, but rest assured, roads are designed in a relatively standardized way nationwide.
Their cynical intuition is wrong, though, and the “large country” argument in particular falls apart at the slightest scrutiny. So what if we have more roads? We have commensurately more traffic engineers, too! There is no excuse not to design properly.
I think we’re having a problem determining the difference of what is possible and what should be possible. Your argument is ignoring the most important aspect of any public project. There isn’t enough political will in this country to pass universal healthcare, something that would end up saving the country billions of dollars. In what world do you think American politicians are going to replace 4 million miles of working roads?
I don’t have the time ATM to watch this, I’ll give it a try after work. However, I doubt they’re going to be able to explain how they would get through the gridlock of our current government.
Vehicle size is irrelevant. Lack of access to public transportation is indeed a problem; however, in general “we shouldn’t fix problem A because we also have problem B” is not a valid argument. It just means you should fix problems A and B.
Traffic congestion won’t improve unless we improve public transportation. It doesn’t matter how well you build the roads, unless there is an alternative to driving there will be too many people on the roads. My argument is if we have to solve problem B before we work on problem A, there is no real reason to address problem A.
look, you’re not wrong to argue that that’s a popular perception; however, that’s much more a consequence of the shitty state of civics education than it is an accurate description of reality.
I think we’re just just getting into sematics now. Yes there is somewhat of a standardization of roads, but that does not mean they have the power to unilaterally create a new standard in which they could enforce with the power of the purse.
Your argument is ignoring the magnitude of funding and state and federal cooperation that would be required to revamp the entire transportation network of a huge country. Even if you could get a bill passed through our current Congress, how much money would it take, how much time?
Do I think we should be designing walkable cities with ample public transportation, of course. Do I think any politician in America would actually care about that…? No.
There isn’t enough political will in this country to pass universal healthcare, something that would end up saving the country billions of dollars. In what world do you think American politicians are going to replace 4 million miles of working roads?
We do have the political will in this country for universal healthcare, or, at least, most people, a majority, think it would be a good idea. it’s just I guess up to how you define “political will”, because we can have a majority that think we should have it, and then still not be able to get it even with popular support because the american government just straight up sucks and has bad voting systems and gerrymandering and even at the local level most of them are awful and are victims of circumstance of the presiding state and federal government. So that’s just kinda. I dunno. It sucks.
I always find it very strange how this shit comes up, though, right, basically as nihilism. I don’t think that guy’s point was to try and convince you to like, go out an canvas for better road conditions, his point was just to convince you that your arguments and causes were wrong and that you should be thinking about road design differently, mostly in that it’s a deliberate decision, and a bad decision. If you look at NJB, the guy who made that video, he’s an omega doomer that doesn’t really think progress will be made towards good urbanism within like, two generations, so he moved to amsterdam to escape it, basically. He’s also a doomer.
The point wasn’t to convince anyone to be an activist for anything, because that’s a pretty rare person that’s gonna be able to do that, the point is just that, the next time it comes around that the city has to do road maintenance, and they have a couple different options for proposals on how they might improve things, or if they will improve things, or if they’ll just leave things to rot, you can vote to make them better and it will take like 5 minutes cause someone talked about this shit previously.
Which, was the other point I was gonna make. We’ve just had a big new infrastructure bill passed and new passenger rail funding, and new amtrak proposals, and even though it’s not enough we’re seeing progress on that front. And more than that, at the local level, things don’t happen all at once with federal funding projects. They happen by degrees. You change the local standards, zoning regulations, so on, you know, shit you can precisely do because most politicians don’t give a shit about it, or shouldn’t right, if they turn it into a political issue where they’re like “we’re fighting the war on cars” with that mayor of toronto, gerard ford? it kind of becomes a mess. But if you can get it done, then over the next 20 years, things slowly shift in the right direction, as things have to be maintained by the city, and they decide hey maybe we’ll redo some of this in a different way that makes more sense and will legitimately feel better to drive even if suburbanites have been so propagandized to hate everything but a 6 lane totally car centric road.
I also would maybe contest the point about people driving in lieu of anything else, you know, I mean, this is sort of always the problem with urbanist solutions, right, is this chicken or the egg problem. Sometimes it’s easier to get big funding, even venture capital funding, for new development along a newly federally or state funded rail project, right, and that’s obviously a good thing, and then sometimes it’s easier to just change your regulations and then slowly make it so people can actually take their bike some place, right. I mean, you just kind of have to do both at once, whenever they become available as options, whenever prevailing conditions allow, and it takes a while. Hopefully you don’t get shafted with a useless kind of commuter park and ride rail line, but I suppose that’s better than nothing, and you know, hopefully some sort of development could come in and help fill some of the surrounding development with walkable shit so people have actual destinations at the suburban end of that, but then, you know, that requires you change the zoning regulations around that end of the track. I dunno. If you make the neighborhoods more walkable and have more destinations you might actually want to go to, more intracity places to go to, then public transit usually gets better, and if people have good public transit then that’s good for making walkable places because then you can kind of have the ability to expand people’s horizons and let them go places without having to own a car. I dunno, chicken or the egg, but also you just kind of do them both because there’s not really a dichotomy between them, is what I would assume that guy to be getting at.
We do have the political will in this country for universal healthcare, or, at least, most people, a majority, think it would be a good idea. it’s just I guess up to how you define “political will”, because we can have a majority that think we should have it, and then still not be able to get it even with popular support because the american government just straight up sucks and has bad voting systems and gerrymandering and even at the local level most of them are awful and are victims of circumstance of the presiding state and federal government. So that’s just kinda. I dunno. It sucks.
When I referenced political will I mean the politicians.
always find it very strange how this shit comes up, though, right, basically as nihilism. I don’t think that guy’s point was to try and convince you to like, go out an canvas for better road conditions, his point was just to convince you that your arguments and causes were wrong and that you should be thinking about road design differently, mostly in that it’s a deliberate decision, and a bad decision. If you look at NJB, the guy who made that video, he’s an omega doomer that doesn’t really think progress will be made towards good urbanism within like, two generations
My entire point is explaining the diff between what should be and what can be. Yes, we have the tech and the ability, but that doesn’t really matter if it never gets put to law.
His original statement questioned why people weren’t agreeing with his idea, I simply explained why it was an unrealistic goal.
Which, was the other point I was gonna make. We’ve just had a big new infrastructure bill passed and new passenger rail funding, and new amtrak proposals, and even though it’s not enough we’re seeing progress on that front.
I think you have a problem realizing the difference between 550 billion and 7.7 trillion. We have a lot of infrastructure that needs to be addressed, pretty much all of it makesore sense to do than spending trillions of dollars on roads.
Again, I understand roads should be better, but I also understand it’s not really a politically viable option.
I simply explained why it was an unrealistic goal.
See, so this is kind of my problem, right. You’ve said that it’s an unrealistic goal because it’s not politically viable at the federal level, which, you know, other comment, right, I don’t necessarily think that the majority of roads that people interface with on a daily basis have to be dealt with at the federal level, or have to deal with federal budget. I think the feds really only have to deal with like, amtrak and highways, and, again, not as much progress as there should be, right, but, progress on that front. More than we’ve had in the past 50 or 60 years, at least, which is a start.
But all that aside, right, like, this is a problem, a pretty major one at that, looking at death statistics, and even looking at projected problems like climate change, and the negative effect that this has on that. Not even necessarily just on the emissions of cars, which people plan to deal with via electric (booooo), but in terms of the cost of human development in such a fucked up way. Like ecological destabilization, and flooding from runoff, heat islands, shit like that, which, you know, climate change exacerbates. So we can agree, it’s a problem, in general, that we need to deal with. Why is this, what the fuck are we talking about, you know? Like, what is the tradeoff here? What else would you rather spend fake money on? Why can’t we just have healthcare and roads instead of having neither? Why is there this dichotomy, here? Like you’re agreeing with the premise of the argument here but the disagreement is that it’s like, not something you think we should spend political capital on, or just. Not something you think will get done? Like, why not? I dunno it is just kind of boggling my mind that you are agreeing with the core issue here, but you’re disagreeing on the premise that nothing will happen about it.
See, so this is kind of my problem, right. You’ve said that it’s an unrealistic goal because it’s not politically viable at the federal level, which, you know, other comment, right, I don’t necessarily think that the majority of roads that people interface with on a daily basis have to be dealt with at the federal level, or have to deal with federal budget
I don’t think you understand the separation of power between the state and the federal government. The federal government cannot dictate to the states how they build their roads. If you wanted to make overarching changes that require the states to spend money in a way they are not inclined to do, it must be done through Congress.
Why is this, what the fuck are we talking about, you know? Like, what is the tradeoff here? What else would you rather spend fake money on? Why can’t we just have healthcare and roads instead of having neither? Why is there this dichotomy, here?
I think you may want to take a civics course or something? There is a limited supply of funding, while people like you or I would like to spend that money on things like infrastructure and healthcare. There are people out there who would rather siphen that funding into private corporations to make themselves very very wealthy. The people who want to be very very wealthy are already very wealthy and in positions of power to exert their influence over the government.
Our government was created by the wealthy, and has built in protections to ensure that the wealthy stay in charge. It’s literally the entire point of having a bicameral Congress, where the Senate has true control over what bills are signed into action.
Yes you can fix this. The Dutch bicycle culture was started by municipal votes, where resolutions passed municipal governments with margins of single votes. If American politicians can pull their heads out of their asses and even only pass a resolution that:
Disseminates empirical research on road safety to all traffic engineers,
Prioritises safety for all users on roads and streets, with priority given to those without armour (i.e. a car), and maybe
Penalised engineers and politicians who choose to fail to design for safety
Then in the next thirty odd years, I think that the worst offenders can be rebuilt.
Do note that few things are as good at destroying themselves in regular, correct use as car infrastructure.
If American politicians can pull their heads out of their asses and even only pass a resolution that:
This is my entire point… It is unrealistic to believe that American politicians would do something for the good of the people. Especially when a large portion of Americans themselves rarely vote for their own self interest.
What would be the cost of redesigning and paving 4.19 million miles of road? Well let’s do some real conservative napkin math. Let’s choose the cheapest type of road, a rural minor arterial on flat ground. The reconstruction for this single lane would be 915,000 per mile, per lane. Assuming every road is just rural and two lanes the cost would be around 7.7 trillion dollars. Roughly a third of America’s GDP.
Shit like this is why I think the only thing that will save America is a complete purge of state and federal government, and a very clear and specific explanation why the US governments have been forcibly emptied and rebooted.
It should be governments’ jobs to act for the betterment of their subjects. The fact the US doesn’t, and happily marches the troops into places where they do “too well” if you’d ask them and read between the lines of their answers, is a crime against humanity.
I think we’re about 40-50 years too late for that option unfortunately. I think the whole world is going to be a little too busy addressing our rapidly deteriorating climate to do anything meaningfully good anytime soon.
yeah see that’s what I was talking about. you don’t have to ask for 7.7 trillion dollars all at once, because we already spend a pretty ludicrous amount on road maintenance already. you just redesign the road the next time the maintenance schedule comes around, which works out to be like. what you were already gonna spend, + the cost of paint you were already gonna use, + maybe some bollards, - the projected amount you would save by making it so people can take more trips by bikes and walking. which decreases car usage, which decreases the frequency with which you have to do road maintenance and upkeep, because cars weigh a lot and wear down the roads way more than any other use of roads.
yeah see that’s what I was talking about. you don’t have to ask for 7.7 trillion dollars all at once, because we already spend a pretty ludicrous amount on road maintenance already.
That’s how every congressional budget is configured… When they run scare tactics about universal healthcare going to cost trillions of dollars they don’t mean all at once. When they pass something like an infrastructure bill they also have to explain how to pay for it and for how long.
you just redesign the road the next time the maintenance schedule comes around, which works out to be like. what you were already gonna spend, + the cost of paint you were already gonna use, + maybe some bollards, -
That’s not how roads work… The maintenance schedule is just fixing the top layer of paving. The bulk of the cost is in reshaping land and pouring the concrete foundations. If all you’re doing is repaving the top layer it’s not going to make any significant changes.
If all you’re doing is repaving the top layer it’s not going to make any significant changes.
more than you might think, again, even just with paint. a road diet can take a four lane road down to two lanes, and can add bike lanes and a turn lane, which cuts down on traffic accidents from lane changes, and potentially road speed. you can do a lot with on street parking, and then you can increase the width of bike lanes and increase their traffic separation even more, if you really want to encroach on the space cars are taking up. you can focus larger projects on given intersections, you can increase the size of curbs, once foot traffic increases, and it becomes easier to justify. I don’t have solutions for like a six lane fully stroaded out shithole, outside of maybe trying to make it into a boulevard with planters and trees and pedestrian islands in the middle, because the crossings are too long. you can also do that shit they did with covid and just cut off a street for a weekend and then see whatever the increase in foot traffic ends up being, and then present the results of that trial, which is a good way to get the idea across and raise support in the community.
if none of those, combined with changing zoning laws to allow more mixed-use development, and more built up development, if none of that strikes you as “significant changes”, then I don’t really know what to tell you. it takes a while to accomplish, and at this point in most places in america is a multi-generation effort, but I dunno, that’s just kind of the way it is. if you’re really cynical, I guess there’s caltrops? like I dunno, what’s your alternative here?
I’m not a fan of them because they have been known to cause accidents in the past from people trying to slow down and not get ticketed. TIL this is bupkiss. I’ve read it so many times I took it for granted. That and it only slows people down in that specific area. You slow down, drive past it, then just speed back up.
I think Europe uses a better system, where you post two cameras on either end of the road you want to regulate the speed of. You take pictures of the license plates and time how long they were in the road for, then divide the distance by time to determine average speed. If that speed is above the legal limit, you look up the plate and they get a ticket in the mail. It’s lower tech because it doesn’t need LiDar, it’s harder to ‘cheat’, and it can be pretty cheap for regulating long stretches of road without exits.
No source of that (obviously because it’s bullshit), but there’s sources that show they reduce the number of people speeding this making the roads safer for non driver users by reducing the number of accidents.
While the system you describe does exist a lot in Europe the single cameras are much lower tech. They don’t have to read the license plate (twice!) correctly – they just take a picture. And while the mobile ones (non-descript grey van with blacked out rear windows parked at the side of the road) do use LIDAR, the static ones use just induction coils that are put into the road surface about 2m apart, rivht where the camera is looking. In Germany they’ll often put these coils in both directions of the road and just randomly turn the camera around, though newer ones just work in both directions all the time.
I mean, I agree people hating speed cameras is nonsense, just drive the speed limit! However, traffic calming is legit and makes the road a much safer place for pedestrians, and usually it’s by narrowing the road, not widening it.
Tell me more about these “spells”, which occur in limited numbers, are capable of long-range attacks, deal explosive & powerful damage… and can only be performed by someone who has the proper equipment and spends time in advance preparing them for use? :-D
I’ll need to watch it again! It’s been so very long. It is such a core part of my aesthetic & genre preferences since I first saw it as a teenager, but I haven’t seen it in a good while.
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