ATQ,

This is fine until she gets caught. Then it’s a fraud conviction. Nothing like getting yourself in over your head and then sent to jail to stick it to the man 🙄

Primarily0617,

sent to jail to stick it to the man 🙄

i don't think "i would like to not be homeless, please" is really "sticking it to the man"

mister_monster,

In order for something to be fraud someone has to be defrauded. If she pays her rent there’s no crime. I doubt they’d try to get her charged with fraud for not paying her rent.

habanhero,

IF she pays the rent then the landlord will likely not be incentivized to do anything about it even if they find out, but still would sour the relationship. I mean, what else could the tenants be lying about?

I don’t know enough about NYC tenancy laws but I wonder if obtaining a rental through fraudulent means gives the landlord rights to break the lease, thus putting the tenants at risk of being evicted.

BarrelAgedBoredom,

Have you rented from corporate landlords lately? The relationship doesn’t have a chance to be soured because it doesn’t exist. Fuck the system. It runs on fraud anyway, but once the filthy masses start playing the rich man’s game all of a sudden it’s a problem? They’re not going to look into it. You’re vastly overestimating the amount of effort these scumfucks want to put into their “business”

habanhero,

But wouldn’t it be worse if it’s a faceless corporate landlord you are dealing with? There is virtually no “relationship” so if they find out you obtained the lease through fraudulent means, are they not more likely to come down on you? Because you are a “high-risk” tenant and they don’t want to encourage this behavior. Just handle it through laws since it’s in their favor.

My point is, the system is rigged against renters for sure, but I don’t think there is necessarily a win here if you do this.

BarrelAgedBoredom,

That’s what the second bit of my reply was about. They dgaf. They’re not going to look into it past the approval process. Think about it. If you lose your job and are no longer able to pay rent but have a month or twos’ rent saved, are they going to evict you? No, of course not. They have no way of knowing you lost your job. What if you take a new job after that that pays less than the one that qualified you for your apartment and now you technically no longer qualify. Are they going to evict you? No. They have no way of knowing unless you tell them. And even then they don’t care. If your rent is paid they don’t give a shit. They’re not going to look into it. There’s no reason to.

If you lie about how much you make to get into a place that’s beyond your means then that’s your own fault. You’re going to get evicted when you keep coming up short. They’re still not going to slap you for fraud. If you lie about your income to get into a place that’s within your means (because the income requirements for these.places are entirely arbitrary and unrealistic) then you’re going to face no repercussions because you know how to pay your bills.

habanhero,

Well the whole thing is contingent on the fact that you can actually pay rent. The stress test is the landlord’s way of trying to verify that, and if you are assuming you can do that above all else then sure, everything will be just peachy.

I’m not absolutely not convinced that everyone who claims they can pay rent actually could, however.

BarrelAgedBoredom,

Please, show me one instance of someone in the US being arrested for fraud because they lied about their income. Show me a real world example of this “stress test” you mentioned.

The same could be said of people who meet the income requirements for any given residence. Just because someone can pay rent on paper doesn’t mean they can actually pay rent. Doubly so for credit checks. Someone with a low score isn’t necessarily in an unmanageable amount of debt and someone with a high score isn’t necessarily someone that has a manageable amount of debt.

If you’re going to commit fraud in order to secure a rental then you need to go in with the understanding that it’s important to know what you can actually afford. The same goes when you’re doing it through “legitimate” means. If you can’t pay the bills, then you lose your house. Its the same conclusion whether or not you lied about your income.

You’re not going to go to jail, they’re not going to check. And given the situation a lot of people are finding themselves in right now, it’s pretty shitty to not empathize with people who are struggling to keep a roof over their heads, appealing to “the legality” of what their doing. As if the laws and people who wrote them aren’t responsible for the fact that people have to resort to fraud in the first place.

The fact that you’re either unwilling or incapable of understanding this shows how little you think of people who are struggling to make ends meet. Your constant resistance to the idea of people doing what they need to do to acquire shelter results in you essentially saying “if you have to lie to get a roof over your head, then you just shouldn’t have a place to live”. Which is a pretty fucked up stance to take.

habanhero,

When did I say anything about anyone going to jail? The only point I made about getting a rental through fraudulent means is that it could potentially backfire on the tenant if the tenancy law allows landlords to break the lease because of it (which largely depends on regional tenancy laws).

Just because someone can pay rent on paper doesn’t mean they can actually pay rent.

So what do you suggest as a way for landlords to make sure people can actually pay rent? Because this is a legitimate issue that landlords have (corporate or not) before entering into a contractual agreement.

The fact that you’re either unwilling or incapable of understanding this shows how little you think of people who are struggling to make ends meet. Your constant resistance to the idea of people doing what they need to do to acquire shelter results in you essentially saying “if you have to lie to get a roof over your head, then you just shouldn’t have a place to live”. Which is a pretty fucked up stance to take.

Get off your soapbox and take your strawman with you. These are entirely your words, not mine, none of what I wrote has anything to do with your virtue signaling and pretend grievances. The only “fucked up stance” I see here is you debating an imaginary opponent on points you made up yourself.

jandar_fett,

If the upper echelon’s of society don’t want common people to do things dishonestly to get by, then don’t rig the game.

SCB,

It’s not fraud, it’s perjury. You literally sign and agree, under threat of perjury, that your financial information is accurate.

SeducingCamel,

At least I don’t have to make 3x rent in prison

SCB,

I mean yeah, but you might have to soak your bedsheets in the toilet to cool off, according to that other post I saw. Prison is barbaric as fuck.

mister_monster,

A civil agreement between private parties cannot be under penalty of purjury. A civil penalty could be levied if it is specified in the contract, but I’ve never seen a rent contract that specified a penalty beyond the landlord having the right to break the agreement if they find out.

Generally speaking, a landlord has an incentive to keep you if you pay on time and don’t damage property, regardless what you lied about.

SCB,
quirzle,
@quirzle@kbin.social avatar

What's the size of this jail cell vs. a 1 bedroom apartment apartment in NYC you can afford solo?

ATQ,

Might be about the same. But you can’t leave the jail cell. If you move to NYC and spend all your time in your 1 bedroom apartment you’re NYCing wrong.

harmonea,
@harmonea@kbin.social avatar

Ah yes, your city must be under "this" size for introverts to be allowed. I always forget about that law.

tokyo,

Please spend some time outside. I doubt the dude was that serious.

pjhenry1216,

Introverts are not by definition antisocial though they can be. They just spend energy to be social. A shut-in is likely an introvert. An introvert doesn't have to be a shut-in. I don't know the mass public mistake where folks assume introverts are the same as people who don't like social interaction. So an introvert can easily enjoy socializing in NYC and seeing people. It just uses energy.

That being said, if you're not going to leave your apartment, choosing a place that's super expensive due to all the things you need to leave your apartment for, you're not making a good choice.

harmonea, (edited )
@harmonea@kbin.social avatar

The guy implied that enjoying time alone at home is wrong. Introverts enjoy time alone at home. I didn't say introverts only enjoy time alone at home, and I'm not doing this thing where I need a dozen disclaimers proving I really do know what the words I used mean every time I want to make a one-line quip.

Also why are y'all assuming she moved to NYC on purpose? Can no one just be from there originally and move from a roommate arrangement to a studio? Please lol

pjhenry1216,

Extroverts also enjoy time alone at home and introverts can enjoy NYC which is the point where your claim breaks down.

And then I did address the meaning behind what they said without you literally making a nonsense conclusion.

monotremata,

I really didn't take that as their implication. Apartments in New York are often not that comfortable--they can be cramped and cluttered, and not even all that private thanks to thin walls and sometimes even shared bathrooms. So even an introvert with that kind of apartment tends not to spend much time in it apart from sleeping. Instead they'll go to libraries or museums or parks or makerspaces or cafes. It's surprisingly easy to be alone in public in New York.

I think that's all they meant. I see how you could take their comment differently, but I think they were being sincere. Actually spending a lot of time in their tiny dismal one-room apartment with no natural light is actually a mistake that some introverts make when they first move to New York, and it's genuinely depressing to do that.

A caveat to all this is that I've only spent very brief periods in New York, and I do find it overwhelming, partly for this reason. But yeah. I don't think that person meant to condemn spending time alone; they were just saying that treating a New York apartment like a solitary confinement cell isn't good for your mental health regardless of your socialization tendencies.

SCB,

If you want to spend time in your house alone, and you’re living in NYC, yes you are very much making a stupid choice.

You could move outside of NYC, pay half as much in rent or less, and be a shut-in all you want while still commuting in for whatever reason you had to ever go to NYC as a shut-in in the first place.

scytale,

That got me thinking. If spending all your time in a tiny 1BR apartment is NYC’ing wrong, would living in a hotel make sense? If you stayed at a mid-level chain like Holiday Inn Express or Hampton Inn, it’ll cost you $3000+ a month, but that already comes with daily breakfast, utilities and internet, free parking, and regular housekeeping. Some rooms might even have a small kitchen and could be bigger in total area than a 1BR apartment. The only issue is you can’t modify the interior except maybe add some furniture. But if you’re supposed to be out most of the time anyway, maybe that wouldn’t matter as much?

JazzAlien,

Lol

BlinkerFluid,
@BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one avatar

your landlord is showing.

Put that shit away, dude. There are kids around!

fidodo,

How would she get caught? It’s not like she’s posting about it publicly with her name attached to it.

mosiacmango,

If youre landlord is following your social media, something in you life has gone fucking sideways.

Wookie,
@Wookie@artemis.camp avatar

Haha what’s a joke?

RubberElectrons,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

Lmao. Some of us take rules as suggestions (which good people still try to abide by). And, some of us are very rigid.

Potatos_are_not_friends,

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

agent_flounder,

But hey, you get free housing and meals!

Trainguyrom,

Realistically speaking this is fraud that’s extremely difficult to detect. They would have to be able to prove that the income was falsified, and income can change quite a bit over time as people get promoted, demoted, change jobs, gain/lose bonuses and incentives etc. Its like lying on your resume, it can be what gets your career kickstarted, but its also risky

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

And then you get bankrupted by the excorbitant creative cloud license costs.

WtfEvenIsExistence,

!piracy (Does not work for lemmy.world users)

Also: Doesn’t GIMP also do the same thing?

gonzoknowsdotcom1,

Yes

BlinkerFluid,
@BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one avatar

Exact same.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Yar, har, fiddle-dee-dee

Being a pirate is all right with me

Unless you’re in Lemmy.world, then you won’t see

You are a pirate!

Kuro,

And this is why I switched away from .world

WtfEvenIsExistence,

lemmy.world has a mental health community that used to not allow posts mentioning suicide. Yes, a mental health community. Like wtf man. They only changed the rules because I made a meme criticizing that rule.

Nindelofocho,

you dont even need adobe, if the statements are in a web page just use inspect element. Then technically the screenshot would be real until you reloaded the page

Pokethat,

*Do what you want cause a pirate is free, you are a pirate!*🎶🎵🎶

EzekielJK,

I remember the first time I ever saw that video was when I tried playing Enter the Gungeon. I didn’t even pirate it. I just screwed up when I was installing some mods lol

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I get Adobe free through work! Ha-ha! cries because the job is soul-crushing

Mongostein,

Yup. Adobe may not be the ones causing the housing crisis, but all this nickel and diming from other sources is part of the problem too.

Hey Adobe, if you want people to stop pirating your shit go back to a pay-once model or lower your subscription costs. Then maybe use some of that money you’ve got to help us out over here so we can afford to pay you.

ArbitraryValue,

They don’t check your credit? They checked my credit the last time I rented.

Also you don’t need to photoshop when it’s easier to edit the html.

wintermute_oregon,

Credit doesn’t show income. It is just a score with income not factored in.

mosiacmango,

Experian offers a service called “theworknumber” that will sell you income data to anyone for $60.

You cant opt out because fuck american laws, but you can demand they “freeze” it like credit, so any inquiry is just rejected.

wintermute_oregon,

That may solve who’s texting me if I’d like to sell a property. They keep asking me about properties i haven’t owned for years but I use to live at.

Trainguyrom,

At least you get texted about properties you once owned. I get texted about some dude’s properties across the country even though this hasn’t been his number for a good decade now

wintermute_oregon,

Haha it’s just weird to get a txt asking if I want to sell x property I haven’t owned for twenty years.

It has to be a credit report thing as my gf gets txt about the properties and she has never been on the loans or titles. The properties are always in my name.

GlitzyArmrest,
@GlitzyArmrest@lemmy.world avatar

This is where you can request a form to freeze this BS:

employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze

Notably it’s not as easy as freezing your credit. Probably because there aren’t as many laws around it.

ManosTheHandsOfFate,
@ManosTheHandsOfFate@lemmy.world avatar

You can have good credit and a low salary.

Potatos_are_not_friends,

I had 800 credit working fast food because l carried extremely little debt.

Twenty years later, my score is fighting to stay about 750 because I make 6 figures, a few credit cards with zero debt. Because they WANT me to hold onto debt to show my trustworthiness? Fuck that.

Corkyskog,
@Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yes, they do. You get extra points for holding a balance.

Cryophilia,

No you don’t. Technically you get a small (~10 point) bonus for showing literally anything other than $0. But you get zero points for carrying that balance beyond the payoff date.

You should never ever ever pay interest on credit cards. It doesn’t help you in any way.

stevehobbes,

Nah, there’s something else that’s triggering it. Average length of credit matters a lot, so if you cancel cards and get new ones frequently that would do it.

Long term debt for sure is good, carrying balances on cards is never rewarded.

The reason they’re OK extending credit when you have debt is because they can see you are managing it. Mortgage or auto loans (asset backed) aren’t bad. Don’t carry balances on cards ever if you can avoid it.

As another poster said, there’s probably no functional difference for you between 750 and 830.

habanhero,

Landlords also ask for pay stubs / proof of income.

jivemasta,

Yes, but also you don’t get good credit by entering into contracts you can’t afford. What I can and can’t afford are my decision to make.

Just like you can have good credit and low income, you can have high income and be shit with money. It really doesn’t prove anything by showing a pay stub.

bob_wiley,
@bob_wiley@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • Sneptaur,
    @Sneptaur@pawb.social avatar

    Income requirements are often 3-4x the actual rent, so if someone has a good financial grip (no debt, no car) as many in NYC do, they may be able to afford it but not technically qualify. This is a sure fire way to become house poor but if you’re smart about it you can make it happen

    Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever,

    The issue is you aren’t even “house poor” in that case since it is rent. “house poor” at least has a way out if you don’t fully go bankrupt and can sell the house at some point. This cash just goes in the bin.

    That said: If it is your only option to live in NYC and you need to…

    NightAuthor,

    Remember that renting can be financially better, depending on circumstances.

    Purchasing also throws some money away, interest, insurance, maintenance (which is more than people think), and actual purchase and sale fees to banks and realtors.

    Often the recommendation is to only buy if you really think you’ll be in that house for at least 10 years, can put 20% down… and some other things I can’t recall of the top of my head.

    Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever, (edited )

    If your mortgage+insurance costs are comparable to your rent, it is pretty much always better to “own” if you are planning to stay there for at least one or two years. Mostly because, with housing trends, you are making significant percentages of that back (if not a profit) when you leave. Albeit, that is a lot harder with the insane interest rates right now but… rent is also getting insane.

    Because yes, your rent per month might come out a bit lower and you (probably) don’t have to worry about repairs. But all of that is just going down the drain.

    That said, with the modern housing market: it is less that renting is “better” and more that you are fucked either way. But you can at least afford rent… to the degree that it will prevent you from ever building up enough cash for a decent down payment (20% would be nice to avoid PMI but it is far from necessary… depending on interest rates).

    Everyone has to do their own math (if they even have an option, which they likely don’t). But the “ten years” advice has been wrong for years. And a lot of the people who jumped the gun and bought a house a few years back… have REALLY REALLY good interest rates and potentially a solid retirement asset (plus a home). And they either rent it out when they move or sell it for a significantly higher price.

    But also: none of that really matters here. Putting the majority of your income into a mortgage is bad, but potentially has payoffs… sometimes. That is being “house poor”. Putting the majority of your income into rent has no payoffs and is mostly just a way to get trapped because you have no way to save up to change anything. And are pretty much screwed the moment you are unemployed/underemployed.

    stevehobbes,

    They’re 40x the monthly rent.

    If you want to rent a $2,500 apartment, you need $100k in income (gross, not net).

    Yes, if you can skimp elsewhere, you can make it work with a smaller ratio. But it isn’t an insane rule of thumb for what you can afford.

    NightAuthor,

    They’re saying 3-4x on a monthly basis.

    stevehobbes,

    I’m just saying what it is, in NYC it’s 40x the monthly rent for annual gross income, 80x for guarantors.

    3.3x the monthly rent. This is true pretty much everywhere in NYC.

    It’s in their range but more precise, and they will care about annual income. They’ll ask to see tax returns often.

    Potatos_are_not_friends,

    Have you rented recently?

    They ask for the stupidest things. They want 3x rent up front for first, last, security. They want you to have a full year of rent in your savings. Until laws were passed, a person in my town would have to drop $9000 on DAY 1 to rent a 2bd, 2bathroom.

    prayer,

    “rental down payments can’t hurt you, they aren’t real”

    art,
    @art@lemmy.world avatar

    Perhaps you’ve never rented before. Affording and “not qualifying” are very different things. Sometimes you make far more than enough money to rent but maybe you work in the wrong industry.

    bob_wiley,
    @bob_wiley@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • Potatos_are_not_friends,

    The stupid policies will come to your town and then you’ll understand.

    CodingSquirrel,

    You don't even need photoshop. Just use the inspect function in your browser and edit the values directly in the HTML. Free and much easier to not fuck up the formatting.

    nogrub,

    krita or gimp are also free

    TowerofPimps,
    @TowerofPimps@lemmy.world avatar

    Shoutout to krita

    newthrowaway20,

    Works if your statements are in a web format. But most of this stuff is a PDF you download.

    Appoxo,
    @Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Edit the contents with the embedded font

    palebluethought,

    Surprisingly enough PDF is a (mostly) plain-text format, so you can probably still change the values in Notepad, unless they just did the whole thing as an embedded image or whatever

    DavidGarcia,

    fraud is pretty rad 😎

    newthrowaway20,

    Everyone’s doing it. Our ex president apparently regularly inflated his net worth by up to 2.2 billion.

    shadearg,
    @shadearg@lemmy.world avatar

    What’s good enough for the aristocracy is good enough for the proletariat.

    I hear cake is good.

    Potatos_are_not_friends,

    It’s a rental from a landlord who wants your private info. Fuck em.

    AngryAnusHornets,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • jivemasta,

    My finances are my problem. All a landlord needs to know is that I am willing to pay what they are asking. It is my problem to actually pay the money. There are lifestyles in which you don’t have the ability to show someone a pay stub, and can still pay rent on time every month.

    That is why things like credit checks exist. It’s a way to verify that a person has kept their finances in order and are responsible enough to pay their bills on time.

    SCB, (edited )

    That info isn’t private if you’re trying to rent somewhere. Proving your ability to pay is pretty fuckin baseline man

    And yes this is a fraudulent claim, and if caught can have severe consequences, as it’s perjury and can also result in immediate eviction.

    This is not a viable option that should be taken seriously. This is a joke on Twitter.

    ArcaneSlime,

    To add: despite how you feel ideologically about this, “the court system” does not care how much you downvote it.

    SCB,

    Only here would an actual warning about actual legal consequences be met with “fuck off I’m a pirate yarrr” and downvotes lol

    norawibb,
    @norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

    fuck off I’m a pirate yarrr

    moody,

    Many places have laws to protect tenants from shit like that. Where I am, it’s illegal for a landlord to ask for your salary, for example.

    SCB,

    You know what place doesn’t? A place where your landlord requests your salary documentation.

    If that doesn’t happen where you live, then this warning is meaningless to you. If it does, it’s an appropriate thing to warn people about given the enthusiasm surrounding this post.

    PP_BOY_, (edited )
    @PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

    Nobody is forcing you to rent. Landlords have the right to know if their prospective tenants can afford their lease

    Rodsterlings_cig,

    Can't afford to buy, can't meet exaggerated rent criteria,..., profit? I did see a nice rock i might be able to live under, as long as the HOA fees aren't too bad.

    SeducingCamel,

    Bootlicker alert

    You’re right I’m not being forced to rent, so long as I’m ok living on the street

    jandar_fett,

    How does that boot taste?

    Cryophilia,

    I agree in principle but rent is so crazy high right now I also don’t fault anyone for falsifying data in order to get a roof over their head.

    The market is so out of whack the normal rules don’t apply.

    SeducingCamel,

    The uber rich are frauding our entire nation so it evens out

    CountMonte,
    @CountMonte@lemmy.world avatar

    Our mortgage is $2600 month. My wife has a much better paying job than me. I make $2200 a month after taxes/deductions. She is currently going through cancer treatments and although everything is looking positive it really got me thinking about what the hell does life look like for my family if something happens to my wife?

    I’ve had the same bus driving job for 23 years. I’m undereducated. A 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment is $1600 month here. I don’t know how I’d ever be able to take care of myself and two kids.

    They want us to have 80k+ in school debt so you can be allowed to have mortgage debt or rent and own nothing. I don’t know where I’m going with this but I’m just bummed out about life right now.

    DoomBot5,

    That’s what life insurance polices are for. Will be pretty hard to get one with her cancer diagnosis though.

    AeonFelis,

    Love how everyone in this subthread are sure they all live in the same country with the same rules and same banking system.

    lemann,

    Globalization and capitalism babyy

    Not a fan of the latter but that’s life ☹️

    Saeveo,

    Are you not required to have a joint life assurance policy as a condition of a mortgage in the US?

    transientDCer,

    Not anywhere that I’ve seen, just home owners insurance and mortgage insurance if you pay less than 20% down.

    Denalduh,

    Nope, at least not for my mortgage. The only thing that was required was a home owners insurance policy.

    Astroturfed,

    Lmao, what? You really think that?

    Maggoty,

    In the US they want you to default. They can flip the house for more than you owe them.

    June,

    I bought last year and there was nothing in the process that wanted either of us to have life insurance.

    stalfoss,

    lol no, the bank doesn’t care, they’ll just take your house if you can’t pay

    Corkyskog,
    @Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works avatar

    You literally beat me to this reply by like 4 minutes haha. Banks were giving variable mortgages to people who could barely afford current rates, they don’t give a shit.

    shortwavesurfer,

    I would never ever take an adjustable rate mortgage. That is just begging to get fucked. Like right now for example. My mortgage is like 4.2% but if it were an adjustable id be at like 6+% and be out of a house.

    mind,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • krische,

    Or when the housing market is booming, they’ll repossess the house and sell it again for even more of a profit.

    Brandon658,

    Probably make as much use of the scam mortgage insurance that they can too. I forget what it’s actually called but it’s a scam IMO. $100 a month baked into my escrow for insurance to the lender in case I lost the house. To my knowledge it provides me no benefit.

    Upside is when I refinanced it was taken off. (Think the whole first time home owner program requires it for the initial loan.)

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m in exactly the same boat as you. Undereducated, lower paying job than my wife, mortgage, etc. I’ve frequently had panicked thoughts about what I would do if she died. And we have a kid, which makes it even worse.

    Riven,
    @Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Part of the reason my partner and I don’t want kids. It’s almost impossible to raise them alone and she has a preexisting condition that she wouldn’t want to pass on to them. If she passes away I could always just go live in my car by the beach and be fine. Wouldn’t be able to do that very well with a kid.

    sin_free_for_00_days,

    I was never really scared of much until I had a kid.

    solstice,

    Consider term life insurance? (Not whole life which is a ripoff.) It’s usually pretty cheap for a 20 year policy that’ll give you a few hundred grand if the worst happens. Like literally $20-$50/month. I’m not a salesman, don’t work in insurance, just a suggestion.

    Cryophilia,

    Probably too late now she’s already in cancer treatment

    solstice,

    Flying squids family seems to be OK, that user was responding to the guy with cancer wife. Not too late for them I don’t think.

    trexman,

    Yeah, if you’re in your 20s and reading this, and your healthy, get term life insurance now. Get it while it’s go out to dinner cheap. I’m 43 on medication due to congenital issues and mine is $350 PER MONTH!

    Potatos_are_not_friends,

    You don’t need adobe.

    F12, and modify the html.

    Slap a few extra zeroes and take a screenshot.

    dutchkimble,

    Didn’t work. It made my bank balance 00000 instead of 0.

    Thteven,
    @Thteven@lemmy.world avatar

    Try 9s instead

    Rouxibeau,

    Done. Now I can show them $-99917000

    PP_BOY_, (edited )
    @PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

    Me changing my checking account balance from -$14.33 to -$140000.33

    Potatos_are_not_friends,

    Some armchair rental lawyers in this thread.

    Rodsterlings_cig,

    You do have to be a lawyer to afford a chair with arms these days.

    BarrelAgedBoredom,

    Hang on there scrooge mcduck we don’t even have chairs now

    Mr_Blott,
    • Sent from my Orange Crate
    Custoslibera,

    Orange crate?! Luxury! I’ve just got a hole in the dirt to sit in!

    luckyhunter,

    I’m guessing her rent is double my mortgage, if not higher.

    chiliedogg,

    Rent often is. But since renting doesn’t build credit, lots of us can’t “afford” a house even though we’d actually be saving money paying a mortgage instead of rent.

    luckyhunter,

    yeah a 1 bedroom apartment here is a couple hundred more than my mortgage is per month, so i’m sure NYC would be double or triple.

    _number8_,

    it is FUCKING INSANE that apartments get to ask for all sorts of invasive shit like this and that’s just fine. yeah god forbid you take on any risk, we’re only committing to fucking thousands a month, fuck you.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Truly insane. What’s next, your healthcare records?

    aesthelete,

    Nowadays too they often require renter’s insurance so they can get money from the insurance company if you leave too many peasant droppings on the floor during your stay.

    rifugee, (edited )

    Or burn your apartment down (Christmas lights, for example), which you would be on the hook for without insurance. It also covers your stuff if you get robbed. I personally think that it is indespensible.

    CoderKat,

    Naw, tenants insurance is entirely reasonable in my book. That’s not meant for small things. That’s meant for huge disasters like if you cause a fire that burns down the entire building. The liability insurance is the only part they usually care about. Fortunately, it’s usually relatively cheap, too.

    If you didn’t have insurance, they’d just need more insurance themselves and they’ll pass that buck on to you. At least with renters insurance, you can get some coverage for your personal belongings, too.

    aesthelete,

    If you didn’t have insurance, they’d just need more insurance themselves and they’ll pass that buck on to you.

    I honestly think they should be prevented from just transparently passing every single cost of ownership (as well as most of their responsibilities) onto renters, but I’m also American so I understand what you’re saying here.

    solstice,

    I’m curious how you think business works? Like what do you think businesses do, besides passing costs to customers? If they didn’t price their expenses into their products/services the business wouldn’t survive. Preventing them from doing so is just…childishly naive…

    aesthelete,

    It’s true that they have to make more in profit than expenses, but margins aren’t set in stone, except in this country where everyone thinks that not only does already work that way, but that it should.

    In a reasonably regulated industry additional costs may have to be absorbed out of the business’s margin instead of immediately being passed onto the customers.

    The margins are fucking fat in this country, but that won’t stop them from passing every single additional cost onto you again instead of adjusting their margin.

    EDIT: And all of this leaves out the discussion of not only every cost being passed directly onto you, but the responsibilities as well.

    solstice,

    The margins are fucking fat in this country

    Do you have data supporting this? I took a few minutes to select a few ginormous American megacorps in various industries and asked chatgpt to help select the best non-US analogs to compare to. Then I pulled up their financial statements and compared some key ratios over a few years: net income / net revenue (profit margin), net income / net equity (return on equity), and net income / total assets (return on assets).

    I looked at Verizon and Vodafone, and then GM and Toyota, before I decided to actually do some real work on this and put some real data together. My results were inconclusive: verizon is kicking vodafone’s ass, but then again telecom is absolutely fucked in this country so no big surprise there. GM and toyota split the metrics pretty evenly; one better in one area, the other better somewhere else.

    So I’m not convinced yet profit margins are abnormally fat in this country compared to international business. It’ll take a lot of data points from a lot of companies over a lot of years to really get a satisfactory picture of whether your point is truly accurate.

    aesthelete, (edited )

    I took a few minutes to select a few ginormous American megacorps in various industries and asked chatgpt to help select the best non-US analogs to compare to.

    LOL

    I looked at Verizon and Vodafone, and then GM and Toyota, before I decided to actually do some real work on this and put some real data together. My results were inconclusive: verizon is kicking vodafone’s ass, but then again telecom is absolutely fucked in this country so no big surprise there. GM and toyota split the metrics pretty evenly; one better in one area, the other better somewhere else.

    What the fuck does any of this have to do with the margins in rental apartments?

    So I’m not convinced yet profit margins are abnormally fat in this country compared to international business. It’ll take a lot of data points from a lot of companies over a lot of years to really get a satisfactory picture of whether your point is truly accurate.

    There’s hardly a more friendly business environment to stage your multi-national from than the United States…and that’s not only because we have people like yourself trying to thoroughly research how good they have it in order to prove a boot-licking point to some random stranger on the Internet, but also because here, unlike in all other countries, if you don’t like the regulatory environment you can quickly and easily buy yourself a congressman (or two)…oh and you can just send any manufacturing costs such as labor out of the country.

    I think you’re missing the forest for the weeds here truly. I’m talking about a specific area and you’re trying to extrapolate it to the entirety of the world. I’m sure that there are some industries where the margins in the US are a bit thinner than they are elsewhere (especially when it’s not possible to move your labor too far from your business such as in retail), but what’s truly unique is how defeated and broken and used to giving it up to business we are in this country. Or to add one of my favorite Vonnegut quotes for color:

    semi-related Vonnegut quote___ America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, ‘It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.’ It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: ‘if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?’ There will also be an American flag no larger than a child’s hand – glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register. ___

    On the specific point about rental rates and margin, and I’ll go even more specific into the locality…there’s scarcely a better margin business than taking a large complex full of 550 SQ FT apartments in southern california and charging an ever increasing amount of rent, pet rent, shit fees, and requiring more and more other things from renters every year (deposits, pet deposits, etc.).

    California, “liberal” state that it is, managed to pass a huge restriction on this though…you can’t raise someone’s rent more than 10% year-over-year without giving the renter in the unit 90 days notice much to the horror of the landlord class who roused every rabble they could in protest.

    solstice,

    You can’t possibly be this stupid or argumentative. It’s just not possible.

    You made a statement that seemed questionable so I did some real actual empirical analysis of honest to god factual numbers, with a decent methodology to collect data and make some inferences.

    You know, like how science works? Make a statement, formulate hypothesis, collect and analyze data, make inferences? Sound familiar?

    But you’re just so fucking ANGRY, you and everyone in these threads I foolishly engage with. Your vitriol is palpable. It’s blinding you and you’re just lashing out with pure hatred. I bring empirical data to the table to explore your point TOGETHER, in good faith, and you lash out at me.

    What an unpleasant person you are.

    aesthelete,

    You know, like how science works? Make a statement, formulate hypothesis, collect and analyze data, make inferences? Sound familiar?

    Yeah I think science starts with taking a statement a rando made in the Internet out of its context, then plugging it into some stupid robot and trying to use that to prove or disprove that it applies in a blanket way across the entire universe.

    Oh, no that was bullshit I was thinking of just then.

    But you’re just so fucking ANGRY, you and everyone in these threads I foolishly engage with.

    Yeah I was actually seething while I was out there cracking J’s at the store for a couple of hours. You know what they say, bud? If you bump into an asshole in the morning, you bumped into an asshole, if you bump into assholes all day then it’s actually you that’s the asshole?

    That applies here.

    You “took time to explore a point” I wasn’t making, at all, by removing it from context and sending me a giant wall of text.

    What an unpleasant person you are.

    Right back at ya slick.

    Left unexplored because we had to plum the depths and try to calculate the incalculable and the unclaimed (profit margins aren’t even reported for all or maybe even most companies because a lot of companies are private), is the fact that it’s a choice to make landlording into a business in the fucking first place.

    solstice,

    Left unexplored because we had to plum the depths and try to calculate the incalculable

    Have you ever looked at a financial statement in your life? Annual report, SEC reports, balance sheet, income statement, and so on? I highly doubt it. You made a claim about profit margins and I found empirical data and methods to compare American companies to non-US companies.

    Here’s the financials for the biggest REIT in the US, as if you have a clue what that means or what to do with it. Pages 89-90 of 148. Go find the biggest non-US analog and run the same ratios I applied before. See what you come up with.

    …gcs-web.com/…/87be76b9-6e93-452b-a708-7de9e30ee1…

    Calculate the incalculable indeed. There it is, go, calculate. Gather evidence and analyze it to support your statement that margins are fatter here than outside the US or whatever you said. We all know you won’t, but there’s a start for you to be less of an ignorant asshole about these things.

    And I’m smelling shit all day because lemmy attracts ignorant morons like you who go mouthing off confidently saying unsubstantiated things they don’t understand.

    aesthelete,

    Guys watch out this dude’s read a financial report. 😆

    Fuck off. If you’re having such problems on Lemmy with real humans you should just go back to talking to your one “friend” in the world: ChatGPT.

    solstice,

    So that’s a no, you’ve never looked at a balance sheet before in your life. You don’t know any key ratios, you don’t know how to compute profit margins, return on equity, efficiency, and other metrics. You don’t know how to find this data, or what to do with it when fed to you. You don’t know how to compile all these data and analyze it to make inferences. You refuse to look at data presented.

    You don’t know how to substantiate your own point: “margins are fucking fat in this country.”

    So you go around mouthing off about shit you don’t understand, have no way of verifying or refuting, you are hostile towards someone presenting these data and analysis in good faith, and then fall back to ad hominem attacks for good measure.

    And somehow I’m the asshole here.

    Yeah I think I’m done here.

    aesthelete,

    I say one thing about margins in the context of being a landlord and you think I’m making some point about the whole world.

    Which again, you might be able to calculate, maybe, if it were at all fucking relevant…but it’d largely be a fucking estimate because businesses aren’t all public and don’t all expose their statistics. But hey at least ChatGPT can give you an accurate estimate, right? 😆

    ChatGPT gave me wrong answers to fucking grade school multiplication questions.

    You’re a fucking idiot that runs around harassing people, and you started this thread with the same man baby tone you’re concluding it with.

    So again, fuck off.🖕

    If you want a block, just ask for a block directly instead of typing people walls of irrelevant text.

    solstice,

    My god man I wasn’t attacking you give me a fucking break. It’s an interesting thought and I was genuinely interested in exploring the concept in an empirical analytical manner. There’s tons of hard data available to analyze and draw inferences from. We could’ve had a nice discussion here. But instead you turn out to be a raging cunt and go full attack mode. I just don’t get it.

    aesthelete,

    You forget how you started this fucking discussion because you were just salivating for a place to start spewing business bullshit.

    Look up the thread you fucking business bot. You came in here blasting fucking douche bombs about hurr durr that’s how businessing works!!! Look at me I realized that business means selling something for more than you paid for it, and you don’t because you’re an idiot!!! I’m so smart!!

    solstice,

    …yeah I think I’m done here.

    aesthelete, (edited )

    You said that five posts ago and I’ve told you to fuck off in just about every other reply I’ve had to you.

    There’s an actual discussion to be had about the landlord industry and which costs and responsibilities it makes sense to pass onto tenants, or if it should even be an industry in the first place, but not with you, Mr business douche (pictured here):

    c.tenor.com/…/hahabusiness-habusiness.gif

    pjhenry1216,

    i'm sorry, i came over to your profile to block you so i don't have to see your incessant replies on other posts, but your claim someone else is angry is absolutely hysterical after the hissy fit and language you threw after someone didn't dignify one of your comments with a response. Folks in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Again, I'm blocking you, so I won't see your response, but wow. Either you're just trolling or just so fucking not self aware.

    crashoverride,

    I don’t think so, when the water line broke in my apartment, my renters only covered my stuff. That’s what they have insurance for

    June,

    I’ve got a friend who’s apartment got burned out due to a fire beneath them. She didn’t have renters insurance which has made the whole debacle an even bigger pain in the ass than it needed to be. If she’d had insurance her insurance company would have handled everything, instead she had to fight with the person who caused the fire’s insurance herself. She’s picked it up since then and is paying about $30/month.

    Renters insurance is so damn cheap every renter should have it. And for a few extra dollars add on a personal articles policy so if shot gets stolen it’s covered. I had two $2k bikes stolen from an old apartment and insurance paid out full replacement value on them with no issue and I got a nice upgrade.

    zalgotext,

    Another thing they’ll do is say “oh no, you don’t need renters insurance, we provide you with renters insurance and build it into the price of rent.” And then you read through the lease to see what exactly their “insurance” covers and it’s basically nothing, so you have to get your own anyways, essentially paying for it twice.

    dope,

    Or if you flush a bag of concrete down the loo. People do that. People might be justified.

    solstice,

    It’s hard to evict shitty tenants if they don’t cough up rent. So they are very picky about who they rent to because there’s so many good tenants in line behind the shitty ones. Pretty simple explanation really.

    atticus88th,

    I call BS. No one is renting out to someone based solely on some picture. Unless they are subletting a 2 piece bathroom.

    Raiderkev,

    Smaller landlords for sure. The last 2 I had wanted a printout of my Equifax credit score, n paystubs. I don’t think they actually verified anything.

    spez_,

    Mine did. I had to supply references of whom were called

    I had to write a cover letter and pay 6 months of rent upfront too

    This is Australia

    Kikkertje,

    A cover letter? For fucks sake, this is getting beyond ridiculous.

    hemko,

    Wtf leave the shit country this crazyness is a norm

    paddirn,

    I mean, that’s fraud, but you gotta do what you gotta do, housing is ridiculous now. How is there no legislation or anything being done to fix this? And how convenient is it that all of this is happening after we had a President who makes money off of real estate?

    TwoGems,
    @TwoGems@lemmy.world avatar

    I’d do it too. Rent requirements are unrealistic as is general housing. There has to be more homeless people than ever now.

    solstice,

    The one and only “accomplishment” I can think of in Trump’s four year term is passing the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act at the end of 2017. Literally the first (and only) thing the guy does in office is pass massive tax legislation giving a gigantic sloppy blowjob to the real estate industry. There’s so mcuh in there for RE, it’s so transparent. Didn’t build a wall, didn’t persecute gay/trans via legislation or whatever, didn’t drain the swamp, but massive tax legislation.

    paddirn,

    The “culture war” stuff is just their bread & butter for the base that will get them motivated to vote, but their real priority will always be making more money for the investor/owner/donor class. I’m sure this made Trump a heap of money as well, but apparently he needed that sweet sweet classified documents payout on top of that.

    mlg,
    @mlg@lemmy.world avatar

    Meanwhile Adobe: “Hello, I like money!”

    JesusTheCarpenter,

    I don’t known, I feel like Photoshop subscription is at this point like rent in NY.

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